A Message for Labour Brexiteers

This post I rate.

 

So any miner that’s suffering chronic illness or injury or any workers for that matter should beg ?
We’re all only an heartbeat away from being dependant on someone or something to survive .

 

It's a popular misconception that economic migrants from eastern Europe 'sponge off us'. They actually have a net positive effect on our economy, working harder than a lot of the locals and doing the jobs no-one else wants to do.

 

Spot on.

 

It’s not illegal to choose to work less hours, but choosing to give up paid employment is a different matter.

 

Really?
I genuinely believe that people should have aspirations and achieve whatever they’re capable of.

but if their wealth is based on paying slave wages that you and I are subsidising, they should be honest about it.

And I find it appalling to see working class Tories start out by slagging off socialists for having no belief in aspiration, but then later post that the working class should just learn to live on less and be happy about it.

That’s the polar opposite of ‘aspirational’. It’s genuinely a case of ‘the already rich should be left alone because they deserve it, and poor people should be happy they’re not in the workhouse’.

It’d be the basis for a great bit of satire if they weren’t genuine.

 

What do you define as a net positive effect.

 

I'd have thought the phrase self explanatory. 'net positive effect on the economy' means only one thing, there's an absence of ambiguity, it's a straight up factual conclusion.

 

Not answered any of the posts in which I replied to your nonsense, yet you still blather on about 'the feckless in the town centre'. Once more...

Investing in people via the NHS and not cutting the budget of local councils means a healthier, better educated workforce able to do a wider variety of work and not fall ill whilst doing it. Business actually WINS in this situation and it lowers the numbers 'feckless infecting the town centre' that you so abide and fail to understand.

Why can't you see the relationship between austerity (and decades of under investment in place like Barnsley) with issues like homelessness, education, opportunity, drug abuse, joblessness etc.?

It's not as if every study done in the last 50 years has found a correlation between them, is it?

 

You validated my first point, then validated it again. You didn't read what I said properly and then continued with comments laced with inaccurate assumption. Many of us do it. It's just a shame that we do. Hence validating my opening comments in my first post and again.

An aside. Never has there been such a low barrier to entry to run a business and join the 3.6m+ who already do so. There are many "poor" people who have shown endeavour and industry and created something. Shown vision. Faced risk. Tasted defeat. Been fearful they could succeed but carried on anyway. These people aren't multi billionaires. They bake bread. They create technology. They provide services and much much more. They employ people. They pay taxes.

For anyone who criticises the 80% or so of the 3.6ish million. Ask yourself... would you take the risk? Could you risk all because you believe in what you're doing? That it can be better or quicker or cleaner or safer or more valuable or more environmental or more insightful or more stylish or more taste or more healthy (etc) than what others can do?

Everyone can have aspiration. Everyone can take the risk if they want to. Reward isn't guaranteed. But those who try shouldn't be bundled in with the few who abuse the system, and the ones who gain some wealth shouldn't be scorned. Just like those on benefits shouldn't be. Just like an asylum seeker fleeing terror shouldn't be.

 

I thought that you believe that 'uncontrolled immigration' pushes wages down, you've posted it several times, and described it as 'simple maths'.

So quite simply - if uncontrolled immigration is the greatest influence on wages (simple maths), then in any country with the same immigration rules they'd have the same influence so wages would be pushed down the same (simple maths - as you say).

So within the EU we have the same freedom of movement in 28 countries, why are there vastly different economies across the 28? Why are wages not pushed down everywhere to the same point due to the same immigration rules? Could it possibly be that the 'simple maths' is neither maths or simple? Could it be that different economies within the 28 are based on national laws for workers rights, taxation, pure cultural differences?

I'm afraid your description of your bosses at work is a great example of 'doffing your cap' - Why do you feel they're superior to you?

I've been around a long time - I've worked for some people who are much smarter than me , some more driven than me, some who've worked harder too.but I've also been managed by some utter ar53holes too. Success in this country isn't linked to hard work or talent, it owes as much to opportunity and luck.

 

I think you’re doing a better job than me of not reading what I’ve written, and making assumptions too.

for info, I’ve spent a fair few years self employed. I have stated in both those posts I have an utter belief that people can and should aspire to success.

And that’s why I’m dismayed to see this turn into ‘be grateful you’ve got a poorly paid job and learn to live within your means’.

again - I don’t have a poorly paid job, and I’ve been able to instil a work ethic in my kids which
means they’ll do better than me eventually. But I still acknowledge that they’ve landed in a housing market much more challenging than we had when we were starting out.

aspiration is one thing, but an understanding of the economy and the human condition is also important.

edit to add - some of the most driven, smart and downright hardest working people I know are nurses and paramedics. To think that they earn less than a border force official (the guy that checks your passport) is utterly criminal.

 

Where does it say be grateful? Where are the working class tories you've labelled twice?

 

Read the thread - there's plenty of that attitude.

 

Well if you can point me specifically to those points. I've skimmed 10 pages fairly swiftly but I don't recall seeing anything that says be grateful for what you're given.

Surely, all who commit fraud should be subject to the law of the land, yes? And glad you believe aspiration is a good thing and succeeding isnt a dirty word and business people who take risks and succeed shouldnt be demonised.

 

As I posted twice, you ignored it and zoomed in on the fact I think people who’s lifestyle is being subsidised by the taxpayer because they don’t pay their staff enough should be honest about it.

 

Well you did infer I was a working class tory.... twice ;-)

So if you can show me where the points are, that would be very helpful, so then I can see its not just assumption layered with your a few bags of McCain ;-)

 

I didn’t.
Maybe that’s your oversensitivity or maybe it’s because it’s such a grave insult, I neither know nor care.

Despite what a few believe here I have no personal gripes. I am appalled at some attitudes, but I largely couldn’t tell you the names of the posters.

there’s one sticks in my mind, but that’s largely because he can’t go 3 posts without mentioning my name (which I find very odd)

 

Double post

 

Not an oversensitivity at all. I'd vote tory if I believed in their ideals. It just so happens I don't. But unlike some, I don't tar all of them with the same brush. Indeed if it weren't for the likes of Letwin and Grieve and various others who were willing to put what they felt right ahead of their party, who were intent on scrutiny and making right decisions, not just convenience, I can't imagine where we'd be. Though it may just be a delay and not a prevention.