A petition is underway

To be taken seriously, that should have been launched immediately after it was announced that there would be a referendum prior to the election.

Panic Inc.

 

I would find it hard to imagine any statement that I would disagree with more vehemently than that one.

 

Have to agree DSL...the statement is absolutely condesceding.

 

Democracy is about informed choice. The trouble is, survey after survey have shown that the UK public have no real idea about the numbers of immigrants, the amount of cash involved, how Europe actually works, what a trade agreement is etc etc. And yet they still get a vote.

I could use the same argument about genetically modified organisms. The great British public have made their mind up about these, so we don't grow them. But yet they have no idea what a GMO is. What a fantastic way to make decisions, a mass population manipulated by the Murdocs of the world. We can trust them to tell us the truth. So by total free will we vote for things which are so damaging to our self interest.

 

I'm sorry. I just can't get my head round it. So you're assertion is that we can't trust people to tell us the truth, so it would be best all round if they also denied us the right to decide on important matters that affect our lives. Wow. I respectfully disagree. Fundamentally.

 

Whatever the vote next week then it is incumbent on the Government to follow the will of the people and do what the people have said should happen. However, having said that, I think referendums on complex issues like the EU are a smokescreen for the Government of the day not being able to make a decision one way or another. There has been disagreement in the Tory party (and to some extent Labour) over the relationship with the EU for a very long time and because our internal party political system has continually been beset by the issue and because of the rise of UKIP it has finally been made a referendum issue. It is a way of clearing the air for political parties when there is division within those parties. Governments do not, under normal circumstanes hold referendums ( did we have a referendum on Iraq?) as they are usually more united. The current EU referendum is merely the culmination of decades of Tory angst and the pressure of UKIP forcing it out into the open. Referendums, therefore are a sign, to me at least, that the Government elected to govern cannot unite/function effectively and is therefore asking the public to solve their own internal division. As a general rule we vote for our Government (of whatever persuasion) to govern. Referendums are the Governments easy way out.

 

The thing is though. Politicians will know the benefits of both Leave and Remain. The problem is that everyone (politicians, media, Bill darn't pub) asserts their side of the argument so far off the truth to their side that it's impossible for the general public to know the actual facts.

If everyone in the country did the research into it properly and ACTUALLY knew the facts, I would agree that a referendum is the best way to handle it. Nobody wants to give the unbiased opinion though, because absolutely everyone has their own agenda.

 

The clowns that are in charge and by that I mean both the EU and the jackanory party 'in charge' of the U.K. Refuse to provide a solid refuted corroborated figure about the number of migrants in the uk, how much money is wasted/spend by the European. Therefore it's little wonder that some of these surveys come back with the results that they do.

If someone keeps lying to you and shifting their story to hide any possibility of the truth coming into light you cannot trust them to be honest with other decisions matters. Which means that you would consider doing the opposite of what ***** they spout.

i don't need a row of letters after my name to have a basic understanding of the issues at hand. I've got eyes. I have some semblance of intelligence.I engage with people who deal with issues caused by the European project in its current guise on a day to day basis.

There are clowns with letters after their name that are less clued up on the whole scenario sat in various Political/business offices than some of the posters on here. On both sides of the argument.

 

Of course everyone has their own agenda. That's human nature. It absolutely does not mean that we are better off not having the collective power to make decisions on matters that are of fundamental importance to us. Whether we are well informed or not, I trust the collective decision of 50 million people to be the right one. I like living in a democracy. The alternative is that we live in a country where we are denied such basic rights, and allow all decisions to be made by other people on our behalf, all of whom will have their own agenda. In extreme examples of this, decisions are made by 1 dictator, who of course has his own agenda.

 

Genuinely ,if I thought for one minute that every man, woman or child would sufficiently benefit by leaving the EU I would vote leave without hesitation.
This let's spend thisoney or that money on the NHS is bullock's of the highest order .
The Tories would spend it on tax cuts and labour on corperate companies promising to run public services in the national interest whist milking the frk out of it .
Remain in my view is the best option.

 

Referendums are an abdication of responsibility. Why do we vote parliaments in? What do they do? Neoliberal era

 

Until now only the Labour Party has allowed the people a referendum....on remaining in the EEC in 1975 ,
and the Scots in their recent referendum to leave the UK...are you suggesting the Labour Party was wrong to trust the people on these two issues?

 

Double post

 

Think he's thinking more of the policy of if a party doesn't deliver its voted out ,this is drummed into us on every other issue.
The party that carried the leave mantle (ukip )failed in a general election but now gets another chance .
That's not afforded to other important decisions on the basis I've just stated above.
This is more to do with infighting in the Tory party than anything else as most political analysers will admit.

 

So 20,000 people think they shouldn't have a say in it and its best to let their masters make the decision? I thought we lived in a democracy, but obviously some people want to live in a dictatorship, how strange.

 

Id say appalling not interesting...

 

Just to play devil's advocate on that: does this mean you advocate referendums on every policy decision? Because that sounds about the worst way to run a country to me. You'd end up with a mishmash of populist policies that probably don't work together in any functioning way.

Or is it just the EU issue? And if so, what makes this issue different to any other?

Not wanting a referendum isn't defacto against democracy. In fact it seems like it's supporting the democratic system we have - which is to elect a government on a broad policy remit and leave them free to take decision within that.

 

No you missed the point. Some issues are just so complex that average members of the public are not able or not willing to try and understand them. But yet we still allow people with little or no understanding to be involved in the decision making process. This it true of very many complex science issues of today.

There is lot of evidence that the many (possibly a majority on both sides of the argument) of people voting on Thursday don't know the basic fact. (undisputed numbers involved)

 

Yes it did and does for me.

 

That's an important question to ask. My answer to that would be that on a day to day basis, of course the democratic system means that we elect parliamentarians and tell them to get on with it. But some decisions, and our continued membership of the EU are bigger than that and aren't drawn on political lines. Therefore, it is difficult to say that if we put a party of a certain political colour in government then they will do what I want on the issue of the EU. The EU issue isn't just a political policy issue like whether we should build HS2 or build more social housing. It is about our whole way of life. That is why the turnout for this referendum is going to be far higher than a normal election.