A recent quote from everybody's favourite manager..

Good enough for us to get a substantial fee for him though. A lot more than we'll ever get for Kennedy.

 

Reight. I've caught up now. And I agree with the above quote.

But the reason this whole debate has got as far as it has is because I and redarmychris disagreed with Mario's suggestion that Keith Hill was to blame for our relegation last season. You then added your opinion, which on the face of it, initially seemed to be in agreement with Mario's. But as the thread has developed - like John Stones under Keith - it's obvious you're not blaming Keith actually, you're just saying he's responsible because he brought players here who were then kept/re-signed by the next manager, and the next manager.

Fair do's.

I do still believe what I said at the start of the thread. He's trying to re-write history, to make himself look less culpable for his appalling failure in 2012 as BFC manager. But then, it's Keith Hill isn't it? I'd be amazed if he wasn't.

 

700k. He was a lot better than Kennedy in my opinion.

 

I'm a (recently converted) massive fan of TK's, but Golbourne was miles better than him and in my opinion, a top half Championship left back. He might even be better now, 12 months later. We'll see I suppose next season.

 

The Hill thing is interesting. A good Division 4 manager not quite good enough to take a step up then returns to his comfort zone and does unsurprisingly well. Hill is unused to managing any club with history and a fan base used to managers who treat their club with respect. He can't face his utter failure and who can blame him. As for his lasting impact as Jay says a large percentage of our squad so of course his impact is still felt as was the financial impact of having to pay off his failures in January. Of course he is not solely to blame or even largely to blame for our relegation but of course his signings and negativity had a decisive impact


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You can't honestly think that the top scorer in League 2 was just floating around doing nowt and the berk was the first person to think to sign him?

People will have been keeping tabs on him for months.

 

Keith loving xxxxer

 

That financial impact was majorly offset by the huge transfer fees received though, to be fair like.

But I'm done on this argument. Think we've finally come around to the fact that no, Keith isn't to blame for BFC's relegation, 16 months after his departure and leading another club to the division we now find ourselves in.

 

I don't think that. I never stated anything like that.

It's similar to Stones though (if what you're suggesting is true..) isn't it? Moyes signed him, but Martinez is rightly getting the credit for giving him his first team run/opportunity.

 

Actually, that is a fair point regarding Moyes. He should get credit for signing Stones and I bet he wishes he had him at Old Trafford instead of Jones or Smalling.

 

Martinez wanted him for Wigan though (first) so he deserves all the credit in my opinion. Moyes could easily have afforded to take Stones to Old Trafford with him. He didn't. He played Jones/Smalling/Evans/Ferdinand.


Hodgson is doing similar.

 

Including Hill. Dale were rumoured to have been after him after our first season in L1, though not sure he'd have ever come/we could have afforded his wages. Hill left and it was definitely never going to happen.

And to the inevitable "Hill is a good L2 manager" comment elsewhere in the thread, he is also a good L1 manager. He's already illustrated it once.

 

You can't accuse him of not sticking to his guns when he was with us, I've got more respect for people who stick to what they believe in than those who change because of public opinion.

His mistake with us was constantly going on about the financial situation but he proved how small the margins were between being a team at the bottom and the top - we only lost three players and went from being play-off contenders to having one of the worst calendar years in our history.

 

Anyone else on board .

 

Let's be reyt, Stones wasn't his doing it was the academy team. The rest weren't worth an awful lot between them, all 3 played in League One last year remember, exactly were we're heading.

 

Reight, last post on the subject.

If Keith Hill had never been our manager then last season's relegation would have nothing to do with him. I think we can all agree on that.

You have claimed that last season's relegation had nothing what so ever to do with him. Zero. You've repeated that numerous times. So, it's just like he was never was our manager. Like he'd never been to the club.

So what you're actually saying is that without Keith Hill ever being our manager we would still have started this season with David Flitcroft as manager and a squad containing Perkins, Dawson, Cranie, McNulty, Mellis, Wiseman, Cywka, Dagnall, Etuhu, Golbourne and Kennedy and we would have been relegated just the same. Which, of course, is ludicrous.

We're not talking about 1 player like your example above, we're talking about 11 players and the manager, all of whom were at our club because we employed Keith Hill as our manager. A whole team worth of players and a manager at Barnsley because of Keith Hill. And you're trying to tell us all that this had no influence what so ever on our relegation? Goodness me.

There were many factors in our relegation: our old board, our new board, our inferior budget, David Flitcroft, Danny Wilson and Keith Hill. For you to pin it on Flitcroft and Wilson while ignoring the rest is, well, it's astonishing.

 

Wow.......just waded through the 78 posts here.......astonishing at times to the downright ridiculous.

Anyway may I just say the large majority of players that are being blamed for relegation were more than lorded over on here after every Flicker victory last year.

As somebody has already pointed out, who was actually unhappy with squad last summer based on end of season exploits???

You can't have your cake and eat it.........lord over them one minute......then refer to them as garbage tossers next.

I think Jay has finally just about struck the balance right to kinda of close this debate, however as the name suggests, I'm well and truly in the White n Redarmychris camp. But then you know that already don't you

I wonder if, just wonder if our season had turned out different, 12th place finish say, how many would be patting Keef on back???? Very few I would say.....very few indeed. After all it would have been the majority of his signings

Also just how many, based on most appearances this season were Keefs signings? Would be interesting to know the Hill / Flicker / Wilson %

 

You're being way too literal about things.

There are currently 13 senior players in our squad. None of them signed by Danny Wilson. 9 of them signed by either Hill or Flicker. Theres a good chance at least 6 of these players will be regulars in our first team next season. The 6 being Nyatanga, O'Brien, Dawson, Jennings, Cywka, M'voto.

If we gain promotion next season can Hill and Flicker take any credit for that?
If we get relegated or suffer a season of mid-table obscurity is it still Keith and Flickers fault?
If we win the JPT who takes the credit? Wilson? Or do Flicker and Hill get some acclaim too?
Or does Wilson take blame/credit for whatever our achievements?