Who oversees the trials etc ? If a parent takes their young lad along for a trial, who takes charge ? Who makes the judgement on that child ?</p> </p>
RE: In summary, therefore You can take the world's best players at 14/15/16-year-old, but it doesn't mean that they'll be good at 21/22/23 when you need them. Some players peak too early. The world is full of former schoolboy internationals, even U-18 and U-21s, plying their trade in lower and non-leagues. Not all of that is down to coaching.
Sensible post alert! As a club, we used to be able to produce a long line of powerful defenders over the years (Sharp, Winstanley, Howard, Pickering, McCarthy, Tiler, Morgan), but also more creative talent seemed to be encouraged, too (Kaye, Houghton, Barrowclough, Otulakowski, Banks, Agnew, Liddell). I'm curious as to whether the criteria used by the Academy to assess young talent is conducive in encouraging the flair players to express themselves, without fear of retribution?
RE: Would a player I went to junior school with Stuart Barraclough. He was a year younger but you could tell, even then, that he was bound to play footie for a living. Football has changed a heck of a lot since those far off days. As I recall, winger were not required to track back, but were required to beat their full back at regular intervals to send a stream of crosses into opposition penalty boxes unhindered by covering defenders. Ah, those far off days when the game was much simpler. The answer is probably yes and no. Talent is still talent and when he had the ball, if there was an opportunity to use his pace he would still beat the defense. However, he would not be as effective as 40 years ago and he would be required to work his socks off when the opposition had the ball. The biggest change in the game over the lat 40 years is that most teams are able to stop their opponents playing as they would like to play. The biggest similarity is that real talent is still a rare commodity. Sadly, Barnsley does not seem to be producing it for some reason. I am complaining about lack of ability in the academy, but if you look at their place of birth, very few are frum Tarn. We pick most of our youngsters up as rejects at the age of 16 from other academies. Are the lads from Barnsley a set of couch potatoes? Is it Thatcher's fault for selling off the school playing fields? What has gone wrong?
It's a point I've raised on quite a few occasions. Is it the fault of the Academy that it doesn't produce players of Championship standards, has the well of local talent now run dry, or is it a mixture of the two?
RE: It's a point I think that it is a mixture. However, the likes of Crewe continue to turn out a long line of players that they sell off to keep the club solvent. The difference between Crewe and Barnsley is that Crewe has a reputation for getting the best out of their youngsters. I suspect that this means that they can have first choice of lads rejected by Man United etc as 16 year olds and Barnsley etc pick up their share of what is left. Jamil Adam came to the club from Man City, and looking at their team last Saturday, it is easy to see why they were willing to let him go. If our coaching was better, then we might be able to compete with Crewe for the best of the rest, but it still does not answer the question about Barnsley youngsters.
I agree The likes of Southampton & Ipswich Town may not have to battle with much bigger clubs in order to attract the best of the young talent (one of the arguments for why Barnsley's production line has faltered in recent years). But Crewe are in the same position as Barnsley on that score, yet still seem to do better than us. The quality of coaching & scouting must play a part in that, surely?
Ryan Jennings and Luke Waterfall looked a decent centre back partnership when they entered the academy as 16 year olds. I do not know what happened to Jennings but Waterfall went to Tranmere when he was not offered a contract as a 18 year old. What happened to these two during their 2 years in the academy, I do not know, but they gradually got worse, particularly during their second year. Out of what was initially a promising group of 16 year olds only Jacob Butterfield was offered a contract. very sad.
Waterfall's making the bench for Tranmere. </p> Football is all about opinions - I just wonder if those charged with judging Academy talent are getting it right enough ? </p>
RE: I agree There is a logic to that reasoning. People argue that Barnsley can no longer afford an academy, and there is some validity to their argument if you look at the number of players that we have produced for the first team over say the last 5 years. However, smaller clubs than us do better than we do on the back of their academies e.g MK Dons, Crewe, Huddersfield etc. An academy can be made to pay, but only if the coaching staff are top quality.
What evidence is there that the coaching in the Academy is poor? Aren't you just going on the results of what is a development squad.</p> I wish you would stop including Winstanley in your lists. A Barnsley Legend, Yes! </p> But he wasn't that good a player and only played in Division 3 and 4 in his career, </p>
It's very difficult to prove a negative Let's turn it round. What evidence is there that the coaching at the academy is good? Is there any? Academy results? Well, they're not very good at all. They're downright shocking to be honest. There's certainly no evidence there. First team players that have progressed through our academy? Nope, there isn't any and hasn't been since Simon Davey cleared out the ones we did have at the end of the 2006-2007 season. In the last two seasons I believe only one academy graduate has started a game for the first team and that was Jacob Butterfield in the last match last season. I've never known a Barnsley team so bereft of players that have come through our youth system. I don't think there's any evidence at all to suggest the coaching at the academy is any good.
I've included Eric As an example of him as a home-grown, powerful defender, which he was. As to whether he was a good player, or not, that will always be a matter of opinion. Simply stating that a player wasn't very good because he never played above a certain level isn't a particularly sound argument for me. For example, Mark Ogley never played below the 2nd Division for us, Winstanley never played above the 3rd. However, in my humble opinion, Eric was a far superior centre half than Mark. What I would say is that Eric was/is a damn fine youth coach, providing a string a players capable of playing in our first team on a regular basis. I am always asking whether the number of local players coming through the ranks to regularly play at Championship level for us is due to the quality of coaching, or a dearth of talent. Barnsley don't appear to be producing that quality from our area, but then again, no other club is either (Mark Beevers at Sheffield Wednesday being the exception). That may suggest that the talent is no longer there in the abundance it once was, but not necessarily that it's not there at all. If there are no players coming through that can cut it at this level and the results at youth level are poor, then surely it's reasonable to query the quality of coaching? Is it reasonable to totally discount the theory and claim there's nothing wrong with the coaching? Can I make it perfectly clear that I am not saying the staff at the Academy are poor coaches. I'm simply querying this with the fans who regularly attend youth games. Hopefully, the likes of Atkinson, Potter, Adam, Heslop & Butterfield are capable of making the grade with us. It'd be absolutely brilliant if they are.
so where does the other coaches such as the bin man and mark smith fit in with your assesemtn of erics coaching sessions?
Wasn't Eric the youth team coach Who produced the likes of Tiler, Eaden, Watson, Moses, Liddell for the first team? Didn't Colin Walker bring on Jackson, Jones & Morgan? I don't know which players Mark Smith brought through to play regularly at this level. As far as I'm aware, I'm not criticising any particular coach in the Academy, just asking whether they are playing a part in the lack of young local lads in our first team. After all, if there's no local talent out there, how can that be the fault of the Academy? In my opinion, Eric Winstanley was a good youth coach for Barnsley Football Club.
ive always been under the impressions that winstanley was more involved with the first team rather than the youngsters.
I'm probably wrong here But I though Winstanley was youth team coach under the likes of Mel Machin, Viv Anderson and, for a time, Allan Clarke (the second time around). Is that wrong?