Andy Gray - he does my head in!

but that isn't what you've been arguing. you've been arguing that because a DIFFERENT ref didn't send someone off then today this ref shouldnt either.

by that logic a push shouldn't be a penalty for the rest of the season because we didnt get one for it yesterday

 

Maybe the basis of my argument was wrong then. But they need to clearly define what the situation is. Torres wasn't aggressive in his approach - and I've seen much worse go unpunished.

 

torres did break the rules, it was a booking. what has been wrong is referee's allowing players to get away with dissent in other matches and they are the refs that should be punished.

 

I don't think talking to the referees is breaking the rules, and it could have been handled a damn sight better.

For me, Mascherano's booking is arguable, Torre's is terrible. Obviously if he's said something horrendous then its fair enough.

What I do know though is that Ferguson will come out and say that its deserved and that his players have never done anything like that. Because he's a liar.

 

There is a good article in one of the papers today (not sure which one but it didnt have pictures of tits in it unfortunatly. well not unless you count cole and co) arguing that managers need to be punished more severely for their actions as well as players. 3 match ban completly from the stadium for any manager abusing a referee. Not just from the touchline but from the stadium completly so they can't have any influence over the game at all.

 

Managers seem to just forget what they've done in the past. Fergie claiming Chelsea's hounding of the refs was disgusting last week, making it sound as if his teams had never done the same thing. A lot of it just bemuses me.

 

Just been listening to the radio...

And they had someone lip-read what Mascherano actually said as he approached the referee, leading to his red card.

"What happened? What was that for? That booking? Unbelievable."

Football is in a sorry state.