Angela Rayner

Anything Labour does will attract negative headlines from the right-wing press. Check out the Express, Mail, Telegraph front pages for as far back as you want to go for this.

As badly handled as it was, the Abbott story has also highlighted to the electorate, once again, that the Labour Party is unrecognisable from the Corbyn-era. Behind Corbyn himself, Abbott is the one most closely associated with this, so a public fight involving her won't be the worst thing in terms of converting voters to switch to them. Sunak has repeatedly (to the point where it's become a running joke at PMQ's) tried to use the "he tried to get Jeremy Corbyn elected" line against Starmer, because he's fully aware of how electorally toxic Corbyn's party was, and still is, in the eyes of the UK electorate. It's pure desperation tactics, given how good a job Starmer has done in disassociating Labour with Corbyn, which was a task ironically made much easier when Corbyn self-excluded himself by losing the Labour whip.

Labour can take absolutely nothing for granted in terms of how they are historically viewed by the electorate. Anyone old enough to remember the final days of the 1992 election campaign will be fully aware of that, when a single rally was enough for them to lose the election.

 

Let’s just keep the Tories then eh?

 

It is possible to criticise individual MPs whilst also wanting the Tories out. If a Labour MP lies then they should quite clearly be called out for it the same way that Tories get called out for lying. Boris Johnson was/is a liar. Keir Starmer has lied. If Angela Raynor lied (I actually don't know if she did or not) then why not say so? Surely its better to keep our own principles and sense of right and wrong than to say 'its ok if Labour lie cos I prefer them but its not ok that the Tories lie'? Dont excuse any political party for lying. Be honest with yourself about it. Get the Tories out, sure, but acknowledge liars whatever colour rosette they wear.

 

Criticise away! But then vote Labour!

 

Labour, the narrowing of the broad church, Aisle say.

 

I’ll tell you what worries me. Certain narratives get propagated by malign forces, both left and right, that end up being swallowed whole by people who only have a passing interest in politics, but are allowed to vote. So, the current Tories, who have been the biggest set of corrupt liars in my lifetime, create a narrative that Starmer can’t be trusted and it gains currency. Anyone doubting how quickly things can go wrong only need to read up on the 1992 election when Labour, at 6-1 on the day before the election, managed to lose to John Major largely thanks to the mainstream media peddling lies about Neil Kinnock. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if theirs is that all politicians are liars then fair enough. But I know which ‘liars’ I would be more prepared to trust.

 

What is the lie related to Starmer you talk about?

 

Whilst I agree that’s the case historically I don’t think it’s true of the here & now. The Sun are trying to get Starmer elected & he’s getting an easy ride from the press.

There’s been award winning documentary’s uncovering racism & corruption in the Labour Party on foreign TV that hasn’t even been covered by our press.

We’ve had black & Muslim MP’s talking about the racism they’ve suffered in the Labour Party in recent times & it doesn’t get picked up. 6 years ago a Labour MP could make a complaint about anti-semitism & it was huge news even without any evidence backing it up.

In short they’re having an easy ride.

 

They weren’t lies about Kinnock but it was this that lost him the election

 

Not sure how you've arrived there. The topic of this thread is Angela Rayner. My post referred to her outright lies on social media. You know, the sort of stuff the Tories do.

 

FTR, I would never vote Tory. But I'll likely be holding my nose when voting for Sir Keir's 'changed' Labour Party next month.

If only folk had done the same in 2019 eh?

 

I won’t be. For that reason. I’m not playing my part in rewarding the arse-holes that sabotaged Labour last time around.

 

It certainly didn’t help. I'll give you that.

 

I voted Labour, as I always do, knowing full well that it was a futile gesture. Whatever one's beliefs about Corbyn, it was always clear that we would never get elected with him in charge. But principled opposition is preferable I guess to gaining power and actually improving people's lives?

 

I dont think all politicians are liars. Never implied they were. Some MPs are very decent and honourable people (I think Rory Stewart was a decent bloke even though he's a Tory and I dislike Tory ideology). I agree that the media pile on Labour to make mischief but if people believe the media spin and lies about the Labour Party that's a matter for them and their belief systems. I do follow political stuff as you seem to do but all I was saying is that lies should be called out. If you think that the 'liars' in Labour are better than the liars in the Tories (as I think you allude to) then its a sad state of affairs that that is the best we can hope for.

 

Starmer and his lies have been debated here lots of times and some people have defended them as pragmatism. I suggest you look up his pledges when he ran for Labour leader or failing that just type in 'Starmer's lies' or something similar on google. Just cos he's Labour doesn't automatically mean he's whiter than white

 

Corbyn, whether we like it or not, was never going to get Labour elected. Too much baggage and too easy a target. If I remember rightly it was 'Get Brexit Done' what sabotaged it.

 

Britain’s next government will need to fill a shortfall of up to £33bn in the public finances unless it is prepared to push through a fresh round of severe austerity measures, a thinktank has warned.

The Resolution Foundation said the debate between Labour and the Conservatives over the funding of specific pledges was “detached from reality”, with election promises based on cuts that would be hard to deliver.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...inances-or-return-to-austerity-thinktank-says

 

The state of the country generally, the state of the economy, and the global landscape was of course exactly the same when Starmer was appointed leader in April 2020, and so of course the only conclusion is that he lied - not that he’s had to adjust his expectations based on what he seems likely to inherit…

Whiter than white? Nope. I doubt it.

Though unlike Raynor, I’ve seen no evidence of a direct lie he’s told. I’m happy to be corrected.

 

Has she. ?. As far as I can tell. Unless I've misread several articles. She still supports multilateral disarmament. Not unilateral. Very different to your statement.
Summat I would agree with. Anyone living at the time of the cold war. And the Cuban missile crisis. Lived with the fear of the destruction of the planet.