Anonymous Poll - General Election

Labour for me even though Starmer is a Zionist. Stephanie Peacock s the best MP we have ever had. Who in their right mind would vote for David White?

 

When you say 'at work'...

Are they inpatients?

 

Remember when Gordon Brown called the woman in Cleveland a bigot?

That moment encapsulates how we ended up with Tory MPs in Barnsley a decade later.

Write off genuine concerns at your peril. Engage with people as humans, and encourage them to see where their anger should really be directed, rather than at immigrants and asylum seekers.

 

“but you have togive the electorate what they want.”

Sorry Titus, but that statement is what is going to destroy western democracy- certainly in the sense that we’ve understood it since the 2nd WW. If we can’t see the limits of ‘democracy’ or only see it through the election process, then we’re in deep ****.

Winning a vote in an election can never be a justification for terrible acts and the brow beating of minorities and ‘others’ and yet that’s where so many Nations are going. We can see it in the USA and across many parts of Europe. And, unless Starmer is the greatest actor since Olivier, we’ll be seeing it in Britain after his term ends in 4/5 years. To be clear, in my mind, it will never be acceptable to be led by Right wing nut jobs bordering on (or actual) Facists - even when, as in the past, they have a democratic mandate from the ballot box.

They need to be apposed in every way possible. I fear the lessons from the 1930’s are being lost with the passing of generations. Those lessons should not be forgotten.

 

Please god let this be true. Voting myself in the morning then driving our lass to the polling station when she finished work.

Needs must.

 

Of course I agree with you in that the emergence of far right parties in Europe is worrying, my point was the vast majority in UK want a centrist party not one that leans too far in either direction.

 

It was Greater Manchester, wasn't it?

And she was a bigot - I think he should have stood his ground. The root causes of her issues should have been dealt with (by Brown as well as Cameron), but let's not pretend that she'd identified exactly where those issues came from. We've always had the economy to provide services for an expanding population if only we'd chosen to do it.

 

It might well have been Manchester yes.

I agree with all of what you say. My point was that Labour's attitude of blowing over those kind of concerns led to them being reared in a big fat Brexit shaped protest. The way to address them is to call out the opinion with decency, not write off the person or ignore the anxiety.

As it is, I fear Starmer's Labour may go too far the other way in pandering to some of the bigotry whilst failing to tackle the real causes of such disillusionment.

 

He's been my MP since being elected to Parliament too, and I can second the recommendation of him. He's a regular at Woodhouse Moor parkrun and I also know him from being part of the CLP. Very dedicated, hard-working MP.

 

You keep saying that Reform voters need to be engaged.
They don't pick Reform as a choice out of a bran tub. They choose it because they agree with their policies. They have actively considered their options for change and decided Farage is what they want. To have gone out and made that choice they must, to some degree, have considered and rejected all the alternatives.
That leaves very little wriggle room regarding their motives. If you remove the stupid descriptor then what's left is pretty ugly.

 

While I feel that branding whole swathes of voters "stupid" is shallow, patronising, and counter-productive, looking at the standard of the English of those on Facebook who are bigging up Farage, Reform etc, it's difficult to conclude that the vast majority of them are very bright, and that's putting it politely.

 

I was literally going to write the same thing.

I genuinely wanted to hear and try understand why people on this forum are voting reform, but from the rhetoric used already on this post I can completely understand why nobody has come forward and admitted it or spoke about why.

Instead of just calling people stupid or racist, at least try and hear their concerns first. Yes, you may consider them stupid or racist, but perhaps theyre just ignorant and politically naive, and they're only consuming certain ideas. They come on here to talk about their ideas, and instead they're instantly called racist, stupid, etc. I honestly feel that's why a lot of people will vote for reform.

Similar feel to 'basket of deplorables' which aided in Hilary losing to trump in 2016. Patronising and condescending instead of educating.

 

No personal abuse in my post JV

 

I'm not disagreeing. I was merely trying to argue that calling Reform voters 'stupid' does no good whatsoever. You may or may not have a different view. If all Reform voters are called 'stupid' they'll just dig in and not even debate -what would be the point? But, if there's a chance that some are open to changing their mind then engaging in debate is better than insulting them. That's all I have been saying....I seem to be getting more flak for my view than a Reform voter!!!!

 

I vividly remember speaking to someone I used to work with many years ago, who, during the Brexit referendum, said she was voting for it because ‘she had nothing to lose’ and ‘things couldn’t get worse’. She said she could barely afford her mortgage and nothing fun, childcare was too expensive and she thought ‘it was worth a go’. After sympathising and talking about life etc. I tried suggesting that Brexit could make her situation a lot worse but she was adamant that the government wouldn’t let anything bad happen ‘because they just wouldn’t’ and ‘they’d show the EU and get a better deal’ and things would either get better or stay the same but the vote couldn’t possibly backfire. She since was made redundant, has a zero hours contract, has moved back in with her parents with the child and is understandably very angry at the world. She’s now voting Reform because ‘things can’t get worse’. She again sees it as rolling the dice with the only possible outcomes being something better or at worst, staying the same. She cannot imagine the ways that they could erode this country and if any are suggested she says ‘they wouldn’t’ or ‘they wouldn’t be allowed’ (quite who would stop them if got forbid Reform for a majority I don’t know) or ‘you’re just being negative’.

 

Since Brexit there's been about 8 years of attempted "engagement". Of asking why people voted this way. Of trying to discuss other alternatives. But when your met with "remoaner", "we won you lost lol get over it", and "Boris is a right lad" etc, then there becomes a time when you throw your hands up and think fck it.

I stand by everything I've written in this thread regarding Reform voters. There are other threads where the policies of reform have been discussed at large, but when folk can't even look beyond parroting the same guff about mass immigration or Farage being in it for "the working man" then it's not worth it.

Its why I made the poll anonymous. So we could get a true reflection, and those secret Tories/Reform could vote honestly.

I didn't think the discussion would go the way it has, but that's life I suppose.

 

Unfortunately, some people just can't be swayed from the lies. At least you tried and I appreciate you not just writing her off instantly and giving it a go at least. I do fear what social media and 'gotcha' clips are doing, they tend to have a huge impact on people. Personality and cheap laughs over policy and integrity.

The rise of the right is on the increase all over Europe, and I hope more sane people like yourself try and educate folk instead of instantly slamming them, Jam. There's clearly tonnes of people who can be won over, proven by Johnsons majority and hopefully soon starmers huge majority.

 

I get your point bud, you and I tend to agree on a lot of issues both inside and outside of football (or it atleast seems so off this forum!) but I just think its the wrong way to go about it.

Lots of people who couldn't vote 8 years ago are now voting. Lots of people who voted 8 years ago are no longer with us. I just don't think we should write everyone off without at least trying first before reverting to name calling. Now obviously there's certain people who aren't worth even attempting - a couple on here match that description... But like I said there's just a lot of people who have no idea and are so naive to the possibilities. Someone who's 22 who's voting reform id love to hear why for instance.

 

Only because you're the only one willing to explain their actions.
I will reiterate though. I don't believe anyone can cast a vote without knowing the policies of the party they vote for or the alternatives. Let's avoid stupid and say that if that's not the case then they have totally failed to educate themselves.
Again, remove the possibility of people wandering through life utterly clueless about the workings of the world around them and what's left is a very ugly mindset that is impervious to reason or persuasion.
As merde Tete says. Look around social media and there are a LOT of folk on there that are beyond the pale. Worldwide.

 

BBC interviewed a guy yesterday who's answer on who to vote for was " I'm still undecided" ..Surely the question to these people is are you happy with the last 14 years ??? if the answers no then look at the alternatives..