Attention Reform Voters

Fair enough, for what its worth I agree.

The problem is, with the financial aftermath of over a decade of Tory rule and the idiocy of Brexit and lockdown, working class people are on the bones of their arse NOW and they want quick fixes rather than the intangible promise of wider societal benefits at an indeterminate point in the future. Starmer needs to find a way to address that, it can't just be written off as stupidity by those of us sitting on a more comfortable income.

 

How does he do this without taxing more, borrowing more or spooking the markets so that our borrowing costs become a further drag on the economy?

 

Bit of good old fashioned socialist economics? Taking more from the wealthier - 'to each according to their needs' etc?

I do agree it's not a simple problem - the factors already mentioned have irreparably damaged the macroeconomic position of the UK, so you're right in that to an extent it's window dressing. But just pointing at potential Reform voters and saying they're all smelly racist povvos will work precisely as well as it worked in Brexit.

 

I think there may actually be some of this once they're in. They have all but hinted at a CGT increase (or perhaps equalization with income tax rates). But they don't want to say this pre-election as 1) it would give the Tories more ammo; 2) there would be a rush to remove assets by realizing gains before implementation. Take your point about brexit, but that was a simple majority. Hopefully FPTP knackers Farage up, even if his vote share is considerable.

 

People dismiss Reform voters far too easily. They have serious concerns and grievances which the main two parties are seemingly failing to address. Whether one likes it or not immigration is an issue and its not going away. The fact that Farage talks it up is clever as he knows it'll hit home. Also, as suggested above, many people, working-class or simply disillusioned, are so fed up with decline, decay, lack of services that they just dont trust any major political party. To point out that Farage is only focusing on immigration and not attempting to address other significant structural issues that need addressing misses the point. For a lot of people immigrants do seem to be first on the housing lists, do seem to be clogging up healthcare etc.... Therefore immigration is an immediate threat which is clear and tangible. To this extent Reform looks like a breath of fresh air. Even the title of the party is clever. Until poor peoples' issues start to be addressed (and immigration is one of them) there will be further support for Reform/Farage. The decline in services etc is a long-term issue which successive governments have failed to address (esp the Tories) but some people want immediate action now and Farage is suggesting he'll do something now. Its easy to vote for Reform and I can see why people do. Personally I hate Reform and the way Farage generates more hatred but simply calling out Reform voters as thick is a bit cheap. They need respect a good counter-argument and a clear, hope-filled alternative. Labour has a big job on its hands as does the remnants of the one nation Tory party. Society needs regenerating so people, basically, are happier. Otherwise there'll be more Reform voters in future regardless of whether or not Reform has genuine solutions.

 

There is no magic wand in regard to immigration. It's a global problem and will become more of one throughout this century. But no-one should be gullible enough to believe the racist lies purveyed by Farage, his toady Tice and the motley crew they are standing as candidates.

 

All this talk of landslide can only happen if people get of their arris and go and vote. Don`t take it for granted that your vote wont be missed because its in the bag, it aint.

 

But for Reform voters Farage and Tice aren't toady and they're not even racist. They're articulating a point which people identify with. Its incumbent on progressive parties to counter Reform by offering real alternatives to address their concerns. Immigration is one concern but there are other reasons why people vote Reform.

 

exactly this. That tax policy benefits the rich far more than the poor by the way but the Brexit lot won’t care… they won’t really care about any policy to be fair, you kill there first born and they’d still vote for him… headlines and all that.

 

I genuinely don't think there are other reasons. I work for a local council, and a lot of our lads who work on the front line always speak about Farage because he "talks sense".

This is clearly code for "he doesn't like brown people". They don't care about anything else.

 

Sadly, and I wish it weren't the case, I think trying to counter Farage and his ilk is a bit too simplistic and likely to be unsuccessful in the short term. Especially since for a decade or more, countering positions and trying to influence electorate has been pretty non existent.

I think we have a number of factors at play, some typical across nations (given rise of populism across many parts of the world), some specific to the UK.

But as a starting point we've had 40 years or more here of ever increasing media fire aimed at migrants. Back from Dartington days of "they stole our jobs and they stole our women", people from overseas have been an easy stick to beat. The Mail, the Telegraph, the Sun, the Express, even the Times have all vented their spleens at "foreigners" (ironic given many of their moguls are just that too!). Just like the constant attack on the EU.

For parts of the UK demographic, any evidence to the contrary of their prejudiced view will be completely ignored and combined with a general stance of "they can't tell me what to do" ("they" being any group or individual that runs contrary to the dogma they've imbibed).

Having said that, I do think scrutiny of Farage and his motormouth can shave off some of those who are ill informed and open minded. James O'Brien and Nick Robinson have shown that over the years scrutiny of Farage will find someone who is shallow and unprepared. But I suspect that number is modest.

I think the key is in our youth. To improve education, to increase skills, to increase opportunity and hopefully as older generations pass (macabre I know) that the next voting generation isn't seduced by hatred of minorities.

 

I’ve said the same. Really considering it anyway it be honest.

 

Ok well if you're correct and I'm misinterpreting things how does one counter that kind of view if its become embedded?

 

I don't think you can. It's the new norm, born of Brexit and the rise of Populist Politics over the last 10 years.

 

Think it really started with the financial crash of 2008.

After that we had austerity, cut backs to public services that worked their way through until the Brexit vote gave many of ‘the silent pissed’off’ the chance to register a at the EU who the government led them to believe were the cause of their ills.

The financial crash of 1929 saw the rise of populism, the far right and fascism – we’re in a similar place.

 

Will you be moving to the same place as all those US celebrities who claimed they'd leave the States if Trump became President, then quickly backtracked when he did actually win?

 

The tax policy helps everyone who is working really. High earners will be paying a higher tax rate anyway.

 

Voting reform on a salary less than about £70k is like taking out a high interest payday loan then boasting about how loaded you are