Boris Johnson

in case you have forgotten, Gideon predicted these scenarios purely in the event that we voted leave, not when we actually do leave

 

I tend to agree with that assessment...it does though underline Boris's inherent cavalier stupidity...had he simply used the net figure it would have sufficed.

 

i think all these countries are net receivers of european money(in the billions) so its hardly surprising they are happy with the arrangement they now find themselves in

 

Russia fought on our side in both World Wars. The USA also fought on our side in both World Wars.

Russia may have been involved with influencing our democracy through the use of targeted psychological advertising, spreading of false propaganda and the use of bots in recent UK election including the referendum for political gain.
The USA may have been involved with influencing our democracy through the use of targeted psychological advertising, spreading of false propaganda and the use of bots in recent UK election including the referendum for financial gain.
(Russia was involved with trying to influence the 2016 Presidential election in the USA. The USA would have tried to influence the Russian Presidential election if it wasn't already rigged in Putin's favour).

Pick your poison.

 

The point is, they needed (and still need) the help from the EU because leaving the Soviet Union in a No Deal situation left them in such dire economic straits that it made a mess of the economy that it taking years to recover from. Inflation of over 900% in one, banking crises in at least 2 of them.

Someone suggested nobody knew what No Deal looked like, and we have 3 recent examples. There might be more that are more positive to that course of action - I would love to see them to support the argument that it is nothing to fear.

 

Macrons comments were so disgraceful that at first I assumed it was the Express or Mail misquoting him.
I can only conclude he is so shallow he believes he can make any comment he believes might make him more popular...he really ought to spend his summer vacation in Normandy or Bastogne to get any idea of what he owes as a French citizen to the USA.

 

I think the assessment is correct....but perhaps a little harsh.
The fact is that when it has really mattered....fighting against the greatest evil, we've all fought on the same side, even the mistrust of the Cold War served a purpose of ensuring stability and allowing Europe breathing space to recover...the fact that both sides security services now like to poke their nose in where it's not wanted (old habits die hard) is small fry at the side of the bigger picture.

 

I'm not sure there is much to be gained by comparing the cases.
They left the Soviet Union gladly, with virtually nothing, no history of business, finance, modern manufacturing, democracy or infrastructure...not even a currency of their own.
It's no surprise it was difficult.

 

Russia fought on our side in the second world war because the germans tore up the agreement they had between them and decided to have a crack at russia in their quest for dominance, up to that point russia was keeping out of things

the rest of your examples are 'mays' (in your own words) and so far there's very little to substantiate any of it.

just out of interest what was this targeted psychological advertising and false propaganda that target people like myself in our decision to vote leave?, i really am interested to know this.

 

my sentiments exactly, he seems to have forgotten what the uk and its commonwealth along with the yanks did for his country (i hope nobody gets offended with the term yanks like they did with krauts and japs ), maybe a few history lessons on the german ideology in the fist half of the 20th century may remind him who was and who wasnt responsible for the occupation of his country and the hundreds of thousands of lives sacrificed in helping to liberate it.

 

these countries and their decisions to get away from the USSR are hardly comparable to us leaving a common trading block (other than us having a political union foisted upon us that many never wanted in the first place) the countries you use as examples were occupied by military force from russia and most of the population wanted no part of it and it took decades to break away...

 

Have a google for Cambridge analytica I believe the company was called.

 

Another remoaner conspiracy theory meets reality and goes up in flames:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...luenced-cambridge-analytica-scandal-facebook/

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-privacy-access-user-data-cambridge-analytica

I know you lot are desperate to not be on the losing side of the argument, but man alive you have to be a special kind of stupid to believe this kind of thing could have significantly affected the referendum outcome, even if they'd managed to try it.

What's funniest of all is that anyone who has even the slightest sense of what the likes of Facebook's politics are these days would know full well that had they genuinely been in a position to sway the US election or Brexit referendum through the use of data etc, they would almost certainly have manipulated that ability to try to prevent Trump or Leave from winning.

 

What's funniest of all is that anyone who has even the slightest sense of what the likes of Facebook's politics are these days would know full well that had they genuinely been in a position to sway the US election or Brexit referendum through the use of data etc, they would almost certainly have manipulated that ability to try to prevent Trump or Leave from winning.[/QUOTE]

"He who pays the piper calls the tune".

 

I think someone on this thread posted that we’re at the stage where its beyond a debate its become almost tribal now. Both camps entrenched in their views, remainers avid guardian readers and intent followers of whatever the impartial BBC and channel 4 news pump out. It’s pointless now trying to reason with folk who’ve decided that they know best.

 

I must be a special kind of stupid. Well done you. You choose to use the work remoaner. That just makes you look a bit silly.

Please explain facebooks politics? What has facebooks politics got to do with third parties using social media? That’s quite funny.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...q-data-firm-link-raises-leave-group-questions

 

Just for clarity, Jeremy Corbyn met with Sinn Féin, a political party, not the IRA. Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness were part of said party.

He also met Ian Paisley, Gary McMichael and David Ervine who were loyalists.

In other words, Corbyn was attempting to help the peace process. Something he was given an International Peace Award for, in 2013.



In the 70's, Ted Heath's Tory government held secret talks with the IRA.

Thatcher, in 1981 tried to negotiate with the IRA during the hunger strikes.

John Major was talking with the IRA in 1993.

From 1997 onwards, Tony Blair and his Labour government negotiated with the IRA eventually leading to the Good Friday Agreement.



The Jeremy Corbyn smear campaign is boring. It smacks of desperation, but it's clearly worked on one or two in this thread. The Tories (and certainly this sham that is the Brexit Company) have no positive policies, no coherent criticism of Corbyn and his policies. So all they've done for years now is sling muck at him.

Thatcher once said: "I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."



And to 'Trickster Two Six' who says Corbyn wants to get rid of our army, I will just leave below the transcript of his 2013 speech (from which this notion stemmed).


"Is it really conscionable or sensible or possible that in three years time in 2016 Parliament will compound the problem of already spending £3bn on preparation for the replacement of the submarines and Trident nuclear weapons system by replacement of the whole system which will cost this country £100bn?

Is it really sensible to spend £100bn of money we can't afford and haven't got while there are homeless people, while there are hungry children around the world, while there's a sanitation crisis, while there's a crisis of people fleeing from absolute poverty to try and gain a place of safety in some of the slightly richer countries in the world?

I had the pleasure of reading last week the World Peace Index book that was sent to me and I wrote about it in my weekly column in the Morning Star.

This country comes 89th. Eighty-ninth on the World Peace Index.

Why? Because we've got nuclear weapons.

Why? Because we're in Iraq.

Why? Because we're in Afghanistan.

Why? Because we bombed Libya.

Why? Because we've got anti-terror legislation that allows executive detention.

Why? Because we've got 80,000 people in prison.

A measurement of a society's happiness and prosperity and success is not war, not weapons, not prison, not unemployment.

The measurement is education, health, inspiration, high levels of employment and not going to war around the world to steal the natural resources of others to enrich the already wealthy western society.

Our message today is in memory of those that were so tragically and brutally and horribly killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki - and all those that suffered the health defects and disfigurement of nuclear testing over the past 60 years.

No more nuclear weapons. No more nuclear wars. No more wars. A world of peace.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if every politician around the world instead of taking pride in the size of their Armed Forces did what Costa Rica have done and abolished their Army, and took pride in the fact they don't have an Army.

And that their country is near the top of the global peace index. Surely that is the way we should be going forward."


Up the Reds/Corbyn/the many.

 

Jesus, yes and I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmonee.

Look up IRA member Linda Quigley, then look up who it was that invited her to Westminster.

There are none so blind.

 

I was recently reading a piece written by Ian Paisley's widow, perhaps surprisingly she said Tony Benn and Ian Paisley were very close friends, and that although he didnt agree with Jeremy Corbyn's politics he said he was a gentleman that he had a great regard for.

 

I don't need to look that up, I'm well versed in all things Corbyn. I like to know who I support.

He was visited by Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn, who were 'voices of Sinn Féin' in London.

Before I proceed, may I ask which party/leader you support?