Bradford City's attendance at the weekend

I'm really not sure what you're arguing. Are you claiming that reducing ticket prices doesn't lead to an increase in attendances? Becuae evidence at other clubs suggest it does.

And that we have already tried reducing prices to £20 per game for a season and it hasn't worked so we've increased it? Becuase if so I've missed that initiative.

 

I'm arguing two things:-

1. Price reductions do not lead to increase in attendances - they don't at Oakwell anyway. Check the attendances for the cheap ticket games this season and last.

2. Any increases would have to be significant to offset the price reductions - we'd be looking at a 33% increase based on Cat B prices to make the same money if we were charging £15 per ticket.

I never said we had reduced ticket prices to £20. I said that £20 used to be the norm but that obviously wasn't bringing the required receipts.

 

Well would it not benefit BFC to review our ticketing policies during the Summer and not to chop and changing during the season.

 

What we aren't party to are the fixed costs of the club and the variable costs of a matchday based on the number of projected fans that come through the gates. If we had that information it would be fairly straightforward to work out breakeven points at different pricing points working on some key assumptions.

Some speculative figures for just revenue. £4 entry and 5,000 fans derives £20k additional turnover. £5 entry would need 4,000 extra fans to achieve the same lift in t/o. £8 would need 2,500. £15 needs 1,333 more fans, £18, 1,111 fans, £22, 909 fans, £25, 800 fans, £30, 607 fans.

I'd expect the higher the fans the more they cost us to look after with police, stewards, staff etc so £4, £5 and £8 would probably equate to a loss, even if we got that volume of fanbase through the doors.

 

correct but £30 is too much

 

So if we work on a principle of 6,000 season ticket holders (for arguments sake), then 2,500 'pay on the gate' fans paying £30 would generate £75,000. So if the price was dropped to £20 then we would need 3,750 'pay on the gate' fans. So, the question is, would 1,250 extra people be tempted to attend if the price was £20 instead of £30? I appreciate that we can only speculate on the answer.

Do you think an increase in attendance of that amount would incur any additional costs? I would have thought the current arrangements for a home game factor in a degree of tolerance in numbers. I would certainly have thought an additional 1,250 people would generate more income in terms of merchandise, food etc.

 

If the additional fans are less hardcore, I'd assume (maybe wrongly) that their spend in the ground is less than the more hardcore. The big variable for me is what level police costs get hiked and what temporary staff cover we might need for stewarding, turnstile operators, programme sellers, staff in the shop, cleaners and daft as it sounds, even electricity and water (if we're billed on usage not an estimated charge).

If our costs are pretty much fixed, then you could take your example above. Would we get 3,750 pay on the gate fans at £20 a head for the rest of the season... personally i doubt it with the economic reality in the north and a general level of apathy.

 

To be honest I think any initiative needs to start at the beginning of the season. Its at that point you create the momentum. The attendances were good at the start of the season but unfortunately we were poor for the first month, and people quickly started to question why they were paying £30 a game. I also think people are more likely to come if there is a bigger crowd and consequent atmosphere. The one flaw in my theory was the poor attendance at the Swansea game when it was cheap and on the back of the Leeds game were the atmosphere and crowd was amazing - a sad indictment on the perception of the FA Cup perhaps?

The categroy system has just become such a divisive issue, not least because of how illogical its application seemingly is. I know attendances will depend on results, but I think a well advertised campaign of fixed, reduced prices for next season would have an impact on crowds, especially if coupled with a strong end to this term (which may be the fall down in that plan!).

 

1. Watford game this season (£16) had increased numbers for home fans of 300/400 so they do fetch in more supporters.

2. I agree the increased numbers dont cover the price reductions.

 

Hi all, I have held off replying to this ......

...... but watched with interest. As you may be aware I am a true Barnsley fan BUT I am Bradford born and bred (in Young Nudgers eyes and a few others this doesn't make me a Barnsley fan at all but hey ho, I know what's what).

I agree about the doubts as to whether Saturdays attendance at VP made it a financial success, however, can I point out that this is not the first ticketing 'initiative' at BCFC either on matchday tickets or season tickets - I would go as far as to say they have been pioneers over the last three or four seasons in taking financial chances in return for getting numbers through the gates.

I agree too that they have struggled to attract quality players cos they can't afford them (where have I heard that before?). And it has been pointed out that they are 19th IN LEAGUE TWO ......... again, not a good position and one fact is a consequence of the other.

But what of the positives ? Players play in front of decent crowds every week must be a good one. How many times have we heard people on here say that "it must be hard for the players to feel motivated at the 'Well in that atmosphere" ? Another plus is that any potential investors would realise that IF they invested there is definitely a decent 'core' crowd upon which they can build their investment. And what of the local area (to me) ? In years gone by it was almost a case of kids walking round town with Man U, Chelsea or (even worse) Leeds tops on. Theses days, notwithstanding the fact that they have nothing to shout about, it is noticeable that kids predominantly wear City tops (apart from a few families in Bingley who wear Barnsley colours). It's not to the extent that Newcastle kids wear Black and White, but it's to more of an extent (proportionately) that Barnsley fans wear Red. I have many mates and family who go regularly and enjoy the matchday experience; the club shop thrives and should they survive as a club and climb through the leagues again they will have a core who will stick by them. It's a sizeable core. Look at the link at the end here and yes, 17k stands out as a decent crowd and no doubt it was a 'loss-leader' to use a marketing term. But look at some of the others. 9.5k against Dagenham and Redbridge (what did we attract v Brum ?). Same against Barnet. Nearly 12k against Torquay. 11.6k against Crewe and more recently 9.7k against Burton. Hardly glamour sides, those mentioned.
http://www.bradfordcityfc.co.uk/page/Fixtures/0,,10266,00.html

And what about the comment "it's a City, not a town" "its a bigger place than Barnsley"........ sorry but that doesn't wash. Although we have the two Sheff sides, Donny and Huddersfield to compete with, City have Huddersfield, Halifax and Leeds too. Guiseley and Park Avenue pull in a few fans and Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan are only a short drive if the 'floaters' want PL action. Now the population is decent, but a large part of that is Asian and traditionally they don't tend to be big footie fans. A lot of other people are put off going into Bradford because of the state of the place and VP itself is not an ideal location. It's far from a prosperous place. In better times, Barnsley always drew in bigger crowds than City, even in the Prem.

Barnsley need to do something, for sure, and I am positive they will. I find it harder and harder to go these days; I went to Pompey the other week; enjoyed myself but it was like a morgue - I could have cried for the halcyon days. A few days later I had an outside chance of making the Brum match (I had been in London all day). What swayed me ? Not having to put my foot down, but a £30 entrance fee. I earn a decent salary but obviously like other family men in these hard times I have to prioritise where £30 is best spent. And this is not a reflection on the excellent job Keith Hill has done and continues to do or on the team neither. Barnsleys not a million miles for me but it is still a bit of a day out - last season my 12 year old would jump at the chance of a trip; this season he is not interested; the main reason the atmosphere and negativity.

Bottom line is, for a club Barnsley's size their has got to be a suitable pricing structure, somewhere between £1 and £30 that suits MOST people. Getting folk in the ground does work and has a positive effect in some important areas.

Hope this leads to some decent comments and debate, and not the usual "why don't you **** off and support City" that I usually get when that club is mentioned http://v2.barnsleyfc.org.uk/images/smilies/icon10.png

 

Re: Hi all, I have held off replying to this ......

Can't understand why anyone would tell you to "f*** off and support Bradford" but that's their problem.

Not sure I accept your arguement about them having to compete with other clubs for fans with the obvious exception of Leeds. I think Bradford's biggest problem is the ethnic population it has.

I just don't think that low ticket prices has any long term benefit. It might boost attendances in the short term but these people generally are not hardcore supporters - they will either lose interest or go only when an offer is on. There is no real financial contribution from this type of fan.

I don't know how low the price would have tlo be to guarantee a crowd of say 15,000 but I'm pretty sure it would be unsustainable over the course of a season. You also have to look at the prices other clubs are charging - if Leeds are charging £36 and getting 23,000 gates we cannot charge £15 and expect to be competitive. The revenue is simply not there.

I don't know what the answer is to fight the apathy but I don't think it's low ticket prices.

 

Re: Hi all, I have held off replying to this ......

And their it is...
Argue all you like about the prices, league 1/2 players blah blah blah, but this has to be the worst atmosphere we have ever had (In terms of being quiet, not in terms of hounding out Paul Hart etc)

Birmingham and a few other set of fans hit the nail on the head.

"your support is f****** Sh**"

And it is

 

The higher the attendances, the more the catering companies will need to bid in order to gain the contract.

I take your point that there wouldn't be an immediate benefit though, but there is a correlation. Falling gates do not give the club a healthy negotiating position.

 

Re: Hi all, I have held off replying to this ......

In the late 60's and 70's I walked round the ground on more than one occasion,during the match, on the same level terrace without bumping into anyone (and it wasn't near the back), the current atmosphere is poor but far from being the worst I've experienced down at Oakwell.

 

Re: Hi all, I have held off replying to this ......

Last home league game of 1984/85 season vs Wimbledon.


Attendance-3053


But then again other issues were of more importance around town.

 

Re: Hi all, I have held off replying to this ......

kids are turning off watching Barnsley,,,,there are other things that interest them get the kids in the adults will come too then.
we need to offer incentives.
think what interests kids NOW.not the same as when it was just to watch the footie.
what do the disposable income group do with there money?
clue : play on ps3,
listen to music.
buy mega expensive branded clothes.
is football loosing out on the fashionable status.
What do you offer kids for there money.....
A voucher match day ticket special....this has to be across the board.....
utilizing catering and merchandise
Ticket to include drink and snack voucher stapled on.for a set price. watch town have a drink and a snack for £20:00 all in one ticket for under 18 .
work if it were advertised,where kids go.don't advertise don't know!about offer.placing and timing of advert crucial.
Contact student union make offers through college students provide advertising material for them to stick up.
But DON'T FORGET to let them know how and when they get discounts .
work with pubs who advertise to put discount vouchers for meals on tickets.keeps pubs going and makes BFC a place with a big atmosphere.
but if you don't let Joe public know it wont work.get people thinking there getting something,and BFC are getting people through the turnstiles.
or wait for atop ten sustained finish and de dahs back in the Championship

 

Ok, early 80's I started going, wasn't around in 60's and in nappies late 70's. So I should have said since I have been going...

 

Not another "Its the fans fault post"

If it is is why don't you approach the club and ask if you can stand at the front of the Ponty with a megaphone and get the crowd going like they do on the continent? Or are you one of these that moan about lack of atmosphere and sit mute all game? Me, oh I've a good excuse, I sit in the Eaststand.
Here's another thought, What about if the team became more consistent, put together a nice unbeaten run climbed the league a little, perhaps that would get the crowd going. Then again you may be correct, why should the players bother when the crowd are quiet, afterall win, lose or draw they still get paid.

 

And that's supposed to put me in my place... Good effort.