BREXIT The Movie

If you want to listen to the experts fine, I agree its a sensible course...listen to George Osborne the expert at the very top of both the Remain Campaign and the Government and give your opinion. I've posted the video link and full transcript link at the end.

I think the most worrying misinformation is when it comes from the top of government ..watch Andrew Neil interview George Osborne..the Chancellor of The Exchequer is completely exposed by Neil..

AN: Now you claim the European Union could cause armed conflict if we leave, could put a bomb under our economy if we leave – the Prime Minister’s words: hurt pensioners, collapse house prices. Why are you risking all that with a referendum?
GO: Well, I don’t think it is ever a risk in a democracy to ask the people. And all my lifetime this issue of Britain’s membership of the European Union has hung over our economy and our security and I think it’s right that the people decide. I think Britain can be one of the great success stories of the 21st century, we’ve got the talent, the drive, the connections around the world but if we vote to leave then we lose control. We lose control of our economy and if you lose control of your economy then you lose control of everything and that’s not a price worth paying.
AN...Before you called this referendum did you ever think that the consequences of losing then would be by your own standards so bad?
GO...Well I knew it was a big decision, as of course did the Prime Minister, but it was also a decision of the British people. We put this in the manifesto upon which we were elected and I think people should be under no illusions. I doubt there is going to be a bigger decision that we are going to be asked to take as citizens of this country and all of us, you and me, people watching at home, we all have one vote so let’s use it.

AN... Now despite everything you’re saying would happen if we leave, only a few months ago the Prime Minister assured us we’d be okay outside the European Union. This is what he told the CBI:
(Clip of David Cameron saying: “Today I also want to debunk an argument that’s sometimes put around by those who say that really Britain couldn’t survive, couldn’t do okay outside the European Union. I don’t think that is true”.)
So last November we’d be okay if we left the European Union now it’s plague and pestilence, Sodom and Gomorrah, what’s changed?
GO... Well “okay” is not good enough for Britain, losing control of your economy is not good enough for Britain, I want Britain to be out there shaping the world, not shaped by it.
AN...But you’re not just saying now that if we left we’d be okay, you’re saying it would bomb our economy, you have said it would be an extraordinary piece of self-harm and yet a few months ago we were told it would be okay.

The Remain £4300 figure
AN What people who are watching this programme want to know is what you are telling is a scare story or true. Now you prepared a longer term report as well about leaving. The key finding that you were very keen to promote is that by 2030 households would be £4,300 worse off. Here’s the poster, you even stood in front of the poster there, there’s your figure. But the Treasury report doesn’t say families would be £4,300 worse off does it? It’s a bogus and misleading figure.
GO Well that’s not the case, that is how much per household our GDP would shrink and if you look at …
AN No, no, it’s not shrinking, on either scenario in or out, the Treasury report showed substantial growth in our economy to 2030, not shrinking.
GO Hang on Andrew, the question on 23rd June is what does the world look like if we’re in the European Union or if we leave the European Union and quit it and families would be £4,300 a year worse off as a proportion …
AN No they wouldn’t, it doesn’t mention their income.
GO As a share of GDP. Well their incomes would be hit and, hold on, the wealth of the nation that provides the public services they depend on – leave that picture up because people need to know the real …
AN Chancellor, I am going to put what the Treasury Select Committee said about your £4,300 under that picture, that is not what the main Treasury analysis found says the Select Committee. The average impact on household disposable incomes would be considerably smaller than this number, neither government departments nor the Remain side should repeat this mistaken assertion. To persist with this claim would be to misrepresent the Treasury’s own work. Why are you misrepresenting your own department?
GO If you actually read the full paragraph in that report it says the Treasury accurately presented the numbers and that it is perfectly legitimate to talk about the impact on households as a proportion of GDP.
AN ..But they told you not to repeat this figure, it says don’t repeat it, it would be to misrepresent your own department’s work.
GO..I’m sorry, you are selectively quoting from that report.
AN...Not at all, that is what the Treasury Select Committee says.
GO..You are selectively quoting from that report. What the report says …
AN...…is that your £4,300 figure is bogus.
GO...Andrew, a) you are selectively quoting from that report. The report said, and I read it of course, that first of all the Treasury had accurately presented those figures. Second, it is absolutely right that people in this country understand it is not just their incomes but the value of the public services they receive and, by the way, this is exactly the sort of number we have heard from a whole host of international organisations. Just this week you have had …
AN...No other organisation uses that figure.
GO...Well they do, the OECD.
AN...It hasn’t used £4,300.
GO...I’m sorry, OECD uses GDP per household and comes out with a very similar number to that.
AN...No, not very similar.

There's plenty more if anyone wants to read the transcript
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/transcript-george-osborne-vs-andrew-neil-brexit/

The video is even better if you wish to see the discomfort Osborne is in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCnjD7ZjAEU

Both sides need to take their fingers out of their ears Micky..watch it and let us know what you think .

 

Thanks! I don't start my new job until September although they have asked me to do a week (paid) in July to help with the library stock check. Just from looking around the school it looks like a much happier and more organised place and yes, it is the role I was hoping to move into. In a year's time I will have enough experience to enrol on a Masters in Librarianship and Information Management or I may just choose to enjoy the lower levels of responsibility and stay where I am. I'm glad your son-in-law is enjoying it and well done to him for completing his NQT in a few weeks' time. That's the hardest part done! In terms of reports, finding different ways to say that someone has a 'strong personality' is always a highlight!

 

To be fair no-one is arguing about George Osbourne's competency or lack of. But the reality is that the vast majority of experts, academics, international bodies, business leaders, trade unions, and politicians across the spectrum are advocating remain. There is no debate on that. That isn't where the out campaign's strength lies.

 

So you're prepared to pass off the Chancellor's lies (I assume you haven't watched it yet ) as a lack of competency...surely that's blinkered beyond any reasonable consideration of balance ?

 

I don't think anyone (certainly not me) thinks George Osbourne doesn't lie through his teeth either. I'm just able to separate him from the vast majority of experts, academics, international bodies, business leaders, trade unions, and politicians across the spectrum are advocating remain.

As I've said many times I have no issue with your vision of a Britain outside of the EU. I just don't believe it is remotely achievable. I shudder at the thought of the vision that 80% of those voting out have though. And despair at some of the complete nonsense or misunderstanding others are basing their vote on.

 

^^^ this, wi' some o' them brass knobs on ^^^

 

^^^^^aye just this^^^^

 

Thanks for that...I was expecting him to be defended...at least that's restored my faith in human nature!!
As to the experts ..I agree the vast bulk suggest Remain...it has to be remembered though how many of these people are linked , personally ..professionally...or in the case of many financial experts linked by their inability or lack of expertise...or just failure to predict the crisis of 2007/8 , it's much easier to join the crowd you'll not be singled out for ridicule.
One organisation that needs highlighting is the Oecd...Remain lean heavily on their opinions.. I have no idea whether they are honest and correct or not...I am not expert enough to know..the Secretary General Angel Gurria has just weighed in to say Brexit politicians are just after advancing their careers...that's his
personal opinion irrelevant to the debate , others might say the greatest advancement of a career is moving higher in the EU hierarchy ...it also must be considered when listening to Mr. Gurria...he has been running the OECD in partnership until very recently with former Belgian PM..Yves Leterme..who is closely linked with another former Belgian Pm and fellow party member Herman van Rompuy who served two terms as President of the EU ...it has to be considered how impartial the comments are.

 

Thanks for separating him, and obviously you include Cameron in that ? How though are you separating the differing opinions of Experts , Academics , international bodies , business leaders , trade unions , and politicians...not all agree by any means .
Without intending to sound condescending (Genuinely sorry if it comes across that way )
.. I would guess that you are just trusting that the majority will be right ..the statements they make are just that statements , not open to debate or scrutiny.

Again ..I can't say they're wrong..but I can say many of them have vested interests...multi national companies who take EU loans to shift from place to place..or people like Mr. Leterme or the KInnocks who flit from top job to top job in the Elite...or Academics who's livelihood depends currently on EU funding...it is not in their interests to rock the boat ...and not only that they are not available for deep scrutiny , we have to take it on trust.
What we definitely can see though is three who are at the very top of the tree , Osborne , Cameron and Blair have all been exposed and scrutinised and found wanting on the most important of subjects.

 

Tbf the vast majority of people I agree with on most issues argue remain - Caroline Lucas, Owen Jones, Billy Bragg, Eddie Izzard. These people aren't part of the establishment.

 

Eddie Izzard? Seriously??

 

Have to agree about Eddie Izzard !! but Caroline Lucas as a Green is currently dependent on EU membership for a voice..I don't necessarily disagree but Brexit would be a backward step for the UK Green Party.
Owen Jones. I like the lad but he seems to have had an overnight conversion.
Billy Bragg..haven't read anything he's put but I would be surprised if it is different to a Tony Benn , Dennis Skinner position.

 

The English working class will be the first victims of a Brexit vote

http://gu.com/p/4m64f?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Dennis Skinner does not think so...there is no better champion of the working classes than him IMO....his pedigree is second to none including Billy's....better than The Guardian who failed to report that he'd come out on the Brexit side ...apart from a very snidey cartoon ...that probably revealed more about the current Editorial of The Guardian than it did about Dennis .