Brexit wheels just come off in Richmond

Inequality is nothing new. It was around before the Eu morphed into its current beomoth and will be afterwards. Even in left leaning countries.

Perhaps you need to consider other reasonings as to why the centre and far right are gaining momentum

 

Re: Disagree with OP Title .

Nah!! Cons didn't field anyone as they didn't want a split vote (irrelevant in the end) and Zac Goldsmith was not popular. The main point was that Richmond was one of the Remain Strongholds so the outcome was not a surprise and certainly given the Labour vote means nothing regarding Brexit especially considering the lower turnout than the referendum. Wealthy area protecting their interests.

I agree 100% though with the new MP stating she will vote against article 50 THAT is democracy i.e. representing her constituents. If ALL MPs vote that way (and if the Scottish MPs do the same I have no problem with Nicola Sturgeon stating they should vote in Scottish interest) provided they follow the same method. IF politicians dont want the risk of being accused of being undemocratic in parliamentary vote they should follow their constituents wishes

Although no figures were available for how each individual Constituency voted as the areas overlapped more than one constituency, academics have outlined methods* for obtaining reasonably accurate figures for each constituency in determining how they voted.

Now before those pro remain people on here get excited, whilst the overal individual count was 48%-52% leave and the Lib dems and Sturgeon believe they could vote it down the fallout would be significant . But measuring the vote on a geographical area and constituency spread it shows London, Scotland and NI as having an overwhelming Remain vote but the rest of the areas voting to leave. (only 3 regional areas voting to Remain to 9 regional areas voting to Leave. Looking at counting areas there was a much higher leave number than remain. (one academic estimate shows 421 out of 574 English and Welsh Westminster constituencies probably voted to Leave) So it was really Scotland London and NI vs the rest of the UK.
*We can produce defensible estimates of how parliamentary constituencies would have voted One strategy is to assume that the same demographic relationships which govern the vote at local authority level also govern the relationship at the level of parliamentary constituencies. If we can build a model which ‘explains’ how local authority areas voted as a function of the average age in the area, the proportion of residents with degrees, and so on, then we can use that model to make predictions about how parliamentary constituencies would have voted.
You might be worried about this approach. You might think that demographics isn’t destiny. That’s probably not true at the individual level, but at the aggregate level, demographics help explain an awful lot of the variation in how different areas voted. If you add information on which region a local authority (or parliamentary constituency) is in, you do even better.

 

And nationalism was around before the EU. And then the EU brought countries together. Absolutely agree it needs reform and issues to address but you don't stop nationalism by pandering to it

 

In the shell of a nut...

 

In spite of what you think I think, I 100% agree with that. We can only hope that when the EU federalist dream collapses we DON'T end up with Nationalism and Right Wing Politics taking over. I blame all wars on religion, nationalism and power seeking individuals in high places.

Perhaps I am being naive (or maybe you are too cynical ) i did not vote leave on the basis of stoking up nationalism. I did so that with the inevitable demise of the EU in its current form, it would be replaced with a trading bloc (as it started out). You dont generally antagonise or start wars with people you trade with

I do not believe we will go back to the isolationist structure of Europe before the technological Revolution. Travel, social media, TV has brought people from different countries together far more than it has divided them. People in the 30's only knew about 'foreigners' from what they were dished up in the papers and never set foot outside the country except in military service. My parents served in the RAF (my dad was an aircraft fitter on bombers and my mum a WAAF in charge of a barrage balloon detail defending the City of London) and they never set foot outside the UK and more importantly never had the desire to. That is the important difference.
You fear what you don't know. Education and an unbiased media devoid of propaganda is also the key. Taking those away is the danger. Wherever I hacve travelled it is not the ordinary person you should fear they want to raise a family live their lives in peace and reasonable prosperity.

 

Sorry to disagree with you here Paul , but that's a total red herring . Only one country was both capable and willing to consider war in Europe and that was Germany , no one else . That old Germany was left in total ruins by the allies in WW2 , my father described it as a 'moonscape' , at the end of the war it was partitioned and occupied by millions of Nato and Soviet Bloc troops , tanks aircraft etc . The German Govt was rebuilt from scratch as a democratic western model , The economy was rebuilt with US capital , and the Germans were not allowed to build more than a pop gun without it being in Nato's service and
control . Even as late as the 1990's the Soviets still maintained hundreds of thousands of troops in the east ...the EU contribution when compared to the after effects of utter destruction and 50 years of occupation is minimal .

 

agree with not stopping nationalism by pandering to it,but on the other hand you dont stop it by ignoring the will of many,nationalism has been on the rise over the last few years because millions of people thought that they no longer had a voice through their normal political parties.
reasoned debate,on ALL sides is whats needed.not constant name calling or accusations.

 

Forget Putin. It's the Chinese that are the biggest concern given that Trump has seriously antagonised them. And he's not even the President yet!

 

Party politics nowt to do with it. I wanted out because I never voted Frau Merkel to be President of Europe.

 

She ll be on her way out soon, no worries, along wi a few other numpties sithi

 

I'm not sure there are any figures to suggest what you are saying , but on the other side of the coin , it seemed to be Remainers who were panicking to register for the deadline according to the BBC regarding the Govt extending the registration deadline :

According to the official government website, there were 242,000 applications to register to vote on Wednesday, the second highest total since mid-May when a registration campaign was launched. Of these, 135,600 were from people aged under 35.
There were a further 195,000 applications on Thursday, taking the overall two-day total to 437,000 applications.

The proportion of applications coming from younger age groups continued to be very high, as it was in the days before the deadline - 77% of those applying were from the youngest three age groups, meaning they were under 45.

 

Two points ...it's not our business to poke our nose into other countries internal democratic politics , no matter how we may dislike their choice it is likely to be counterproductive , rather like Obama's back of the queue comment .

As to turning our backs on co-operation and integration...they are two different things . Co-operation is brilliant and should be encouraged , and there is no reason for either party to stop , once you are integrated co-operation is no longer a choice but a requirement of legislation

 

And the future of the continent will be much worse for it. We are entering a dangerous time and we will all be much worse for it.

 

Just out of interest, what is your thoughts on the EU citizens in the UK and the British citizens in the UK potentially facing having to return to their country of origin? - or at least nobody on either side is willing to guarantee their rights to stay.

 

Copied from elsewhere. If this is taken as a referendum re-run.

Comparing vote %age to referendum result in Richmond, assuming Goldsmith voters = brexit, Lib Dem = remain.

Richmond Park as a 2nd EU referendum:

REMAIN 49.7% (-20.3)LEAVE 45.2% (+15.2)Don't Know (Lab) 3.7%Others 1.4%Swing to LEAVE = +17.8%

 

Bullshite.

 

Its scaremongering and nonsense. No one currently living working in the EU or UK will have to leave . There may be a transitional period of visas being introduced etc, but if you think someone living in the EU or UK with a job property residents permits etc will be forced to leave then you are talking nonsense. International law, human rights is not connected to EU membership would prevent forced repatriation. People from outside the UK and EU live and work in these countries and it is not dependednt on whether we leave or stay in the EU. It may be more difficult to obtain permits visas but retrospective action will not happen.

 

So the vote in Richmond wasn't a view on Brexit ?

 

If tha right and the far right nazi partys get back in, in Germany just like the 1930's then get ready because people like you will be locked up in wormwood scrubs just like Oswald Mossley unless tha escapes to Germany like William Joyce and look what happened to that p1llock.

 

people like me who am I then pray tell, Murkle the Turtles on her way out just like Hollande, whats that got to do with me sithi