Clarke Carlisle suicide attempt

Re: Response to Ralf Little

As someone who was diagnosed with severe depression 6 months ago I totally understand Clark Carlisle's actions. I do understand other people looking in and seeing his actions as selfish, however it is nigh on impossible to explain the way it makes you feel. I've been visiting mental health now for 3 months but I've only had 2 sessions as it is an extremely long wait for an appointment. The build up for me started after I had just got a mortgage, having a car and a van to pay for whilst also going self employed and setting up my own business which at the age of 22 is quite daunting as I've had my fair share of money worries. It started as panic attacks and pure anxiety before it turned into something much worse for me, I couldn't talk to family, I treat my girlfriend badly and I felt as though I had lost everything. It's the little things that got me, things that didn't even matter so much but your head makes the small things turn into mountains and your head simply doesn't want to conquer it. When I went to the mental health clinic at Thurnscoe that was probably my worst moment, the fact I had to speak about how I was feeling had kept me awake for maybe 4 nights but after 10 minutes of being in their it was the best thing I ever did, I felt at ease and as though these things I was worried about or struggling g to deal with was nothing... However when that chat ends and you walk out of the building you fall back into the same position you was in as before you went in. It's difficult to deal with, my uncle also had depression and I slated him for years saying it's pathetic and he needs to man up, but believe you me when/if it happens to you your views will change in an instance. I have my good days and I have my bad days, the bad days are much more regular and it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel but what's happened to CC actually could help awareness to ignorant people.

Calling Clark Carlisle selfish is unreal, depression involves the person who as depression and only them. It's not selfish, it's an illness.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Having suffered with depression the majority of my life, the proper stuff, with psychiatrists and bucket loads of pills and that, I'm not sure this horrible ******* illness that a lot of us suffer can excuse any of us drink driving. Actually, it can't. It just can't. However bad we feel, we don't lose the ability to tell right from wrong. Thinking **** it and doing something mental doesn't mean we don't know it's mental, we just don't ******* care. We might be desperate, but that's still selfish. Can you extend that to walking out in front of a truck? (I'm referring to the affect on the truck driver, killing yourself is not in itself a selfish act.) I'm not sure, but some things aren't always how people believe them to be:

You're not necessarily in the pit of despair the majority of the general public believe you to be in when you kill yourself. You might be, but not always. Deciding you're going to kill yourself can actually perk you up a bit. It gives you a sense of purpose and a goal. Instead of the bleak future you were imagining, you've now got a plan and summat to do. I'm not joking or belittling this, I've felt it enough times and heard enough other people discuss it in group to know it's an actual thing. It's a very good inbuilt defence mechanism as it goes as the new found sense of purpose has the bonus of stopping you wanting to do it. Also, severe depression feels very similar to fear and terror. So, when you're at your worst you don't want to be on your own and you don't want to die, you want someone to hug you. It's not until you feel a little bit better that you can think rationally and come to the conclusion that killing yourself is the right thing to do. Many people argue that such a decision is not rational thinking. Spend a week feeling like we do and then present that argument.

Someone very close to me killed themselves. They jumped off a motorway bridge. On to the hard shoulder. They'd previously jumped from a very tall building and survived, unbelievably. They made sure they jumped from the side of the building that had no people or traffic.

Some people, however, are arseholes. Depression does not discriminate, it catches arseholes up too. Killing yourself or attempting to do so does not mean you're an arsehole, but it doesn't mean you're not.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Good post.

You don't have to answer this but what pills have you been given to take? I'm currently on both Mirtazopine and busperone (apologies for the spelling) and I've found both to have no effect what so ever...

Oh apart from busperone made it very hard to breathe.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Really sorry, but I've loads to do at the moment. I'm not ignoring you, but I need some time to give you a proper answer. If I can't get back to this tonight, I'll get to it tomorrow. Again, sorry.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Excellent post Jay. You've not been my favourite poster of late (I'm sure that won't upset you too much!) but that is a good and very honest post.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

I think it is acceptable to explain self-destructive behaviour through mental illness. I sincerely hope you have never had any self destructive thoughts and never do, but do you honestly believe your mind would be in such a haze that you wouldn't be able to show some consideration to an innocent stranger? Any individual surely has to consider the impact they would have on someone else's life who was just unfortunate enough to driver a car or a bus or a tube train at that particular moment? Through taking their own life, a person could ruin someone else's - to my mind that is extremely selfish.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Having just watched hi on TV about this i have no sympathy at all. He's seeking peoples attention, did he really think how it could have affected the lorry driver, and perhaps others who were on the road at the time, no!

He wants to try thinking more about peopke who earn next to **** all, get laid off and have a family to feed instead of having a huge bank account.

A friend of mine commited suicide, yes he left many sad people behind but he didnt inovle or endanger anyone else in the way he did it. And having thought about it, neither would i if it came to that.

Sorry, Carlisle, you have seriuosly gone down in my opinion.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Only once have a felt that way but there's obviously a massive difference in your head having these thoughts and then your head actually making you feel it's the only way out, it's strange to explain. I know when I had thoughts I knew my head was messed up and gave myself a good shake and afterwards i felt really embarrassed and ashamed for thinking those thoughts. Clark clearly is much more ill than I am or ever was but I do understand his actions 100%. I do understand also where you are coming from mate, it's no doubt ruined an innocent man's life which is tragic! I know if I was in the drivers shoes I would be very reluctant to ever drive a vehicle again but I find the word selfish a little too strong as when that black cloud comes over you, you lose control.

If I can make a point about this story, why was Carlisle drinking? If he's as bad as he has previously come out and said he is then I'd advise staying away from the drink. I haven't drunk in 6 months as I think it would only make things 5 times worse.

 

I agree.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Thanks for your honesty. Definitely agree re the drinking but maybe that's an example of his self-destructive behaviour?

Do you think if an individual can decide how they die, there must be some element of consideration there? If they can choose what they think is an effective method, they can also consider the consequences for others?

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

My best mate topped himself, as have two other lads I grew up with. Another good mate of mine (full blown alcoholic these days who I've not seen since I left tarn), his brother and sister committed suicide, together. My missus has been through it too, lost someone through depression. And I reckon I've been in some dark places at times. Wouldn't say I was mentally ill at the time, nor depressed, but I was hammering the drink and doing far too many substances about 8 years ago, and I often thought about death. So I cut out the ecstasy, the phet, coke and weed and within a few months I felt different. I felt positive, and positive things began to happen, I met good people, stopped associating with my old clan etc.

I still drink. But rarely to be honest. A couple of pints if we go for a meal or summat, or out with friends/family. I always have a few cans in the fridge on a weekend and at the game I don't drink more than a few nowadays. I like to feel in control, to feel like me. Life is a learning curve for me, lessons everywhere.


Despite having friends, family and numerous suicidal events happen in my life, I can't for the life of me begin to understand what depression is all about and how it affects folk directly. But indirectly, I know it's bloody awful and insanely difficult to cope with. I'm an empathetic lovely person though, I tend to want everyone around me to be happy, I'm happy if others are. But from what I've learned, what I'm told by others etc, you can't make mentally ill people happy, just as I doubt you can make someone stop drinking/taking drugs.

Best wishes to those suffering with any illness or addiction.

You Reds.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

DR have a dig about on line and find out what Mindfulness is...its been around for quite a while

http://www.inquiringmind.com/Articles/PoppingPills.html

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Without doubt mate, and I agree with near enough everything you're saying I just felt the word selfish was abit strong, is their another word for it? I'm not sure but I can't quite stretch to it being selfish. It's his family who I feel for the most, I've been a complete ****er with family, friends and my better half... but imagine how his children feel knowing their dad would rather be dead than be there for his flesh and blood. It's a funny en though isn't it?

Also that was an excellent post Whitey.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Here sumert a bit more up to date.... http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/pages/mindfulness.aspx

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Just being honest, pal.

I think surrounding yourself with good people and positive stuff is about all the advice I could give.

Not watching Barnsley might help too......

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

It's an Interesting read that mate and it's something I have been told about before.

another one on tablets, just reading the back of my tablet box and it says Mirtazopine can cause side effects which include increased stress levels and may cause depression.

may cause depression? So what is Mirtazopine doing for me then? I've been told to try this 3 stop circle technique by my nurse which she believes is much more effective than any tablet.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

A Zen Koan...
Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said, "The flag is moving."
The other said, "The wind is moving."
The Sixth Patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them, "Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving."

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Let's say they are focused on the outcome rather than the method.

 

Re: Response to Ralf Little

Can't disagree with that pal.

 

I can't comment about depression or mental illness as I don't know enough about it but the thread has been a very interesting read, cheers to all who contributed