Cwyzka to Rochdale

Its beyond weird. Incestuous in the extreme.

How many players have Hill & Flitcroft now signed/resigned in the last 12 months between them?

Rose, Kennedy (for both), Dawson, Etuhu, RNL, Cywka.

I can understand Managers signing players they may have a closer working knowledge of, but this is ridiculous. Do they have no scouting network at all?

It's all the more strange that many of those players flopped quite spectacularly and failed to apply themselves to save the jobs of the managers who showed so much loyalty in them.

Just odd. Odd odd odd.

 

Done has performed very well, in the main, when he's been picked. I'm not clever enough to work out why Hill didn't use him much initially, in both season but the second time around was possibly a confidence thing on Done's part. We don't understand why he isn't picking Hery now, but it's Hill, he gets things right for us so often which means although we have a whinge, he's best left to it. It needed saying that Done's been a great player for us. That's all. Now our expectations of greatness may be quite low, but it isn't in doubt, that's all.

The points about other players? Yeah there are few who have gone on to do it consistently at a higher level. COG has made poor choices, twice - Wednesday and Brighton. Kennedy wasn't even as good for us when we had him back on loan four years ago, amazed he's playing in a Championship side. But I'd certainly prefer Hill to be developing players rather than Flitcroft with money to spend on them. In fact, I'd never want our budget to change much.

 

Hill may have signed some former players, but some of his best signings since returning have been players from elsewhere: O'Connell, Eastham, Vincenti, Henderson, Hery, Lund have come from all over the place. Oh and Calvin Andrew.

 

The Keith Hill & David Flitcroft Guide to Scouting the Modern Footballer pages 1/349

Has he played for Rochdale/well against Rochdale/did he go to your Wedding. Gerrim signed up, it's foolproof.

The thing that taught me Keith Hill's limitations as a manager was that he, for a time, preferred to start Matt Done to Ricardo Vaz Te. Shrewd judge of a player...

 

But wasn't Done playing well then?

Don't get me wrong, as mentioned previously some of Hill's decision making around team selection is almost impossible to fathom but without wanting to go over tedious old ground again, a poor Barnsley manager does not mean a poor football manager. Knew this was coming when we signed Cwyzka, but only posted to give a different view on some subjects. Similarly it'd be interested to hear from you lot how you think Cwyzka will do rather than continue down the Hill path.

 

No he was average to be honest whereas Vaz Te was clearly a Premiership player with a bit of an attitude problem.

I think Cwyka will be excellent at League 1 level. He was the only one of our players that I genuinely wanted to stay in the summer. He has pace and a great shot on him. I think he will be real asset. Need to play to his strengths which is perhaps not the deliberate build up that Hill prefers. Cwyka is better when he plays on instinct and doesn't have to think too hard about things as he perhaps doesn't have a great footballing brain.

I think Hill was a bad fit for us Doesn't make him a bad manager as you say. Possibly a limited one (time will say if he can handle a bigger job better than he did with us).

Possibly your tone doesn't help in this after all your not Alex Ferguson just a fan of a lower division team like the rest of us.

 

I've only ever seen Cywka play at second tier level, so I dunno how he'll fare a level lower down. At second tier level, he was hit and miss. More miss than hit. He never commanded a regular place under Keith or Flicker, rarely got a game for Danny either. He was always played wide, usually left wing, and occasionally scored a worldy from the bench. Whenever he started, he flattered to deceive. Although to be fair, he never really had what I'd call a proper run.

I'd always fancied seeing him in the number 10 role, but three managers didn't.


I think there's a decent player in there, but he offers no protection to his defence, can't head or tackle, not much of a grafter, so he's basically an impact player. I'd put him on a par with Matty Done. So maybe he'll come good at this level? Blackpool fans seem disappointed he's left. So would I be if they're getting shut of Tomasz and Zoko and recruiting Kennedy and Nosworthy.


I hope this doesn't stunt the development of RNL. Keith and Flicker had the habit of dropping him for no reason.

 

To be fair Mr W he was first choice for Danny from Christmas onwards.

 

Aye. Think we all adjust our tone when we read stuff we don't agree with, not meant to irritate in return but accept that it does. The debates on here usually go round the houses, up the drives and through their gardens.... in an estate where Hill's face is on every door, but they're usually enjoyable enough as I'd hope both sides are prepared to accept points made. Look back and you'll see I don't think Hill is some managerial god, he's infuriated fans with comments and selections. Thing is, he often ends up being right. Doesn't mean I have to agree with how he got there.

He suits Dale, and Dale suit him. Not sure that if that ever changes that he'll ever go on to have as much success anywhere else. We've already seen what will probably happen to us if he does leave.

 

Hill on RNL in the Sun today "Reuben's a real talent. I've managed him before, at Barnsley, but I think I'm managing him better this time around and perhaps he's at the right age to learn"

Not sure that sounds like a purely short term arrangement....

 

I'm sick to ******* death of Hill, Flitcroft, ROCHDALE and Bury, just **** off the lot of you. We've moved on.

 

This is all very true.

However, it's massively coincidental that the main agent we would deal with was his own.

As an agent, if you've got poor players it's better to get some agent fee than none - it removes all credibility from his decisions to sign Wiseman/Perkins et al.

 

You're half right. He was a used sub for the first couple of months, after starting Danny's first game back in charge. Wasn't seen from February to March. Then as you say, first choice for the last couple of months.

For the first four months upon arriving here under Keith, he was a nailed on starter. Easy to forget that. So I take back my prior claim that he wasn't a regular under Keith. He was. And the amount of games lost in that period is frightening. I'm not that arsed, but looking at my stats site now, if I was arsed, I reckon his win ratio as a reds player when starting a game would be less than 10%. The worst player for win ratios in the last few years was Dawson with 18%. I think Cywka's would be marginally higher if including every appearance, not just starts.

Yes, I need to get out more.

 

He carries on performing like that, and Treacy and Jennings are still no nearer to their best, we're going to look a bit silly. When's the loan up? Is there no recall clause?


One thing I do know, if he was wanted back at Barnsley he'd walk back. Lad loves BFC.

He does love the training at Dale though. Says it's great. Jacob's had a few clubs now and he still says training under Keith was the hardest but best he's experienced.

 

The worst scenario for you is if RNL helps us get 6th place and you end up in 7th! ( not that this is going to happen mind). Always thought it daft to lend a player to a 'rival'. Like the Sheff Weds / O'Grady case - at one point it looked like keeping you up may send them down.

 

You're gonna be nowhere near the top come the end of the season, we will be.

Hill will fail just like he always does. $hit managers always get found out eventually.

 

When has he always failed? He's had nothing but success at Dale?

 

Promotion from league 2 and mid table obscurity?

Not exactly champions league winners.

 

2 play offs -1 Wembley final and 2 promotions in 4 full seasons at Dale. Making the club over 2 million quid in transfers. Yeah he's a real failure.

 

Surely that's a bit like saying Wilson - relegation from the championship and mid table obscurity.

Keith Hill messed up at Barnsley but he is doing a good job at Rochdale at the moment. It's been 2 years now, yes he doesn't exactly endear himself to the fans of either Barnsley or Rochdale with his comments but it's a results business.