I am not trying to be provocative but should we not see how it plays out before we become judge & jury , lets just hope he improves our side & consequently our league position , currently he is no different in a playing sense than any other loan payer we have signed in january , the side needed a different option in the striker department & on paper this guy ticks the boxes, but football is not played on paper & he will be judged over the next 4 months on what he does on the pitch , lets hope we all enjoy his time with us .
Absolutely nothing wrong with the Wayne Rooney deal by the way. Brilliant move by the commercial department at Derby County when negotiating that sponsorship deal that allowed them to unlock greater value in the contract for them, if they gave greater value to the sponsor. It's just smart business to me and the other clubs with the same sponsor that complained did it more in annoyance that they didn't agree the same terms.
Parting with a significant transfer fee for a player who has only played in the MLS is too much of a risk, especially now, at the price likely being talked about. Coming to us on loan, where he'll play, is a far greater stage to make a call on his potential. The benefit to Orlando is that the figure being talked about will be a record for them, but it's a figure they won't get unless he proves himself somewhere else. We've managed to sell Barnsley as that somewhere else. Playing proper football in England for four months is a better platform to judge him than just inviting him over for a two week trial - and that two week trial only showcases him to one team. Everyone in Europe can watch him this way.
That's my understanding reading the info available. The release fee is pretty irrelevant because that only comes in to play if Orlando don't want to sell and someone needs to buy him out of the contract. I'm leaning towards us agreeing a purchase option with a fee below what his value will be if he is successful on this loan. We buy him and sell him in the same transaction at a profit. I think it's smart. Why loan a Chelsea youngster and develop that player with the only benefit being how he improves your team in the short term, if you can loan a player, get the same benefit, and get a cut of the future fee because of your involvement in his development. This is a rare case I think so there won't be an influx of loans.
Interesting piece on Dane Murphy that includes comments on the recruitment of Daryl Dike. Says our board still owns OGC Nice, but apart from that, is a good read. https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021...ical-director-who-brought-daryl-dike-barnsley
Still can't see why, if we need a striker, Orlando need to allow us to cream any funds off his value at the end of the day if he turns out OK. Doesn't make sense to me.
Being super simplistic let's say he's currently valued at £10 million (the release fee is irrelevant really so ignore that figure). The top teams around Europe are looking at him but not yet willing to take the risk of paying that kind of money. He comes on loan to us, during their off season, and performs really well. Those top teams are now willing to take that risk but his value has gone up to £14 million and he's in demand. We've bought him at the original value, sell him at the new value, and both clubs have benefitted in the process.
TBH, I’m a little torn about this. I think who ever came up with this needs applauding for seeing a different route to short term recruit and increase revenue without selling existing players, it potentially is a win/win/win for all parties and only falls over if he’s crap(which then it’s a small outlay short term). On the other hand though I also lean towards agreeing with DWLC about it feels wrong, I can’t put my finger on why but it feels like it’s just about money by trading players. Which of course contradicts my first part. In summary it feels wrong but I know it’s not, conflicted.com
Not really. It would all happen in one transaction. Or he doesn’t perform and just goes back. Rather have this signing than another Ugbo.
I lost faith in football a good while ago in terms of the money thrown at it, but i'll be honest in that for years loan signings have been mostly at the benefit of the parent club, with premier league teams sending out players who aren't likely to break into their team ever, often with lots of clauses and restrictions. I remember Chelsea in particular sending over 30 players out in one season. By doing it this way, it sounds like a case of "yeah we'll develop your player and put him in the shop window, but what is in it for us? Make it worth our while because we aren't developing other team's players for very little long term benefit anymore."
so he's our record signing but doesn't play for us and there's never any intention of him playing for us after he's signed? Nope, still seems off.
I thought we would be judging him as a loan with an option to buy at first with the communications. It's only with the additional information Loko shared that set the alarm bells ringing. The last thing football needs is something like this. I hope he does well for us, I've stated that in numerous threads. But I don't want any club to succeed in an unethical way. And that includes our club too.
Well this is were our moral compasses diverge. A direct external payment for a players wages brings us into a whole realm of financial manipulation and corruption. I think we're well past the crossroads of football being an honourable sporting contest, but we're also fast approaching another crossroads of the position of corporate aggregators and large commercial interests becoming entrenched into the fabric of club ownership. We're obviously now part of that mix and this deal (if what you report is true) just shows we've lost any ability to hold anyone else to account for things which are shady and ethically questionable. I mentioned the other day that for many, winning is all its about and justifies any means. Thankfully, I'll never ever subscribe to that view.
Thing is, being Barnsley we'd buy him and as he went to sign the next contract with his Prem club, he'd tip his chair back , fall off and permanently injure himself. Cue silence for months followed by Conway going to the Mail.saying he's going to sue both of the other clubs to get our money back!
I get the resell thing but what’s he realistically going to do in 4-5 months to generate a value above his release fee? He’s probably going to have to score in every game just to get noticed. Are there any examples of this actually happening in practice? “Everton agree terms with Burnley’s Dick”
I'd have thought Premier league clubs have scouts all over the world, if he really is going to be of that standard they'd take the punt without our input I'm sure. They do it all the time snapping up academy players.
Comes on loan, knocks 5-10 goals in, we finish in the top 10, clubs reputation improves, more attractive for summer recruiting, beginning to get rid of the relegation fodder tag, we now can't afford him so he goes back to Orlando or signs for a prem club, all in one breath. Am l missing summat? With all the board conspiracy theories?
I don't think it's immoral. The headline might have been that the sponsor was making an external payment for those wages but it was just an enhanced sponsorship deal through the profile of the player they had signed. Say that they were out to tender on their sponsorship deal during pre-season and the tender stated 'please submit two proposals, one which includes the signing of Wayne Rooney and one that doesn't', would you think it's immoral then? Because that's essentially what happened or is my understanding, it just got framed differently in the press which has led to the negative reaction.
Not for the money being reported though. That’s the key here, Orlando is wanting to maximise their sale. With no pedigree and only the one year in MLS he not worth that much (hence why Brugge allegedly turned down 8 million). Half a season of performing well it increases his value. Can’t see it being to tune of 20 million but then that’s only based on very unsubstantiated info.