Disgraceful

Me neither to be honest.

 

I don't hate the german

I think most people are well over that WORLD WAR thing now</p>

 

Germans, arrogant and self-centered

all of them!

 

If you think the Irish hating the English is

World War related you'd be well off the mark...

My lads are learning the 1916 to 1923 thing from
the Irish point of view at the moment and its no
wonder the Irish hate the English....

If you get a chance go and see The Wind that Shakes the Barley.
It may be Ken Loach, but the facts are right...

 

History is good to know about ,

but you cant go through your life living in the past.</p>

How do you move on.</p>

Oh and it was the British by the way.</p>

 

Neither do I

 

Goes further back than that

Although what went on then is relevant, Kilmainham Gaol in Dublin is an interesting place to visit

 

Relevent to what?

 

RE: Relevent to what?

To the Irish-English thing!

 

Its not really relevent though is it.

Only to show how things used to be.

 

Well course it does....

Great story about New Labour getting in over there. Jack Straw in the
foreign office (I think) and doesnt like the picture of Churchill in his office. So changes it to the founder of the English parliamentary tradition - one Oliver Cromwell.

First visitor to his new office, the Irish Foreign Minister !!!! Confused as to the frosty attitude from same

 

RE: Well course it does....

I've heard that story as well

Only in recent years that I found out about Oliver Cromwell and Ireland - prior to that I'd thought him a top bloke!

 

Sickening

Absoloutley discusting

 

I dunno...

It still living memory for a few people - less and less I suppose. But my wife's eldest Uncle still remembers being abused and beaten by the Black & Tans at a roadblock when he was 6 years old. Was struck with a rifle butt and lost three teeth!!!! Makes you proud to be British doesn't it.

 

There was a documentry on Channel a couple of years ,

that questioned the atrocities that Cromwell is said to have committed. </p>

 

In reforming terms...

He probably was a top bloke.

In the studies on the Civil Wars I have done, I felt most sorry for South Yorkshire miners. Recruited into regiments in the 1630's and despatched to police Ireland - comparable to Vietnam / Iraq in its day. Brought back by the King in 1644 to fight for the Royalist cause but the propaganda put around by Parliament is that they are "Godless Irish" - so no prisoners taken from their regiments, and in the worst case, them and their women and children burn alive in the Cheshire church they sought refuge in!!

Plus ce change, n'est pas ?

 

He was trying to prevent King Charles regaining the throne,

and as he had supporters in Ireland , he went over to fight them.</p>

 

Britain of 100 years ago is not representitive of me today.

Still if it makes you feel better.

 

Well

Cromwell's army certainly took Drogheda and slaughtered over half the civilian population regardless of age or sex. Now whether that was on Cromwell's direct orders could be questioned, and whether it was more acceptable in those times are things you could query.

However there are certain direct quotes attributable to Cromwell that show he thought the Catholic Irish were lower than the beasts in the field and of less value..

 

There were a lot of Irish Militia in Drogheda as well,

and as they were supporters of the people he had just fought with to free England of its monarchy he probably figured they were fair game.