Do you want us to get promoted this season

Definitely. Otherwise participate in the leagues. Would 'say' Stockport County or Halifax Town fans be raining such a question if they were in our position? I think not.

 

At 200/1, of course I bloody do!!

 

Yes ,any other answer is stupidity, hth

 

Yes, up in May

Deal with what's in front of us.

If we make the same mistakes as 2006 - 2014 then changes needed ABOVE the head coach/manager.

 

it says a lot about how the game is run in that we are even having a debate as to whether we want promotion or not.

for me grab promotion if possible,the longer we are in this division the harder it will become to stand any chance in the championship(2nd division)

 

Had this conversation on the radio with BigLil, and both of us agreed that you take any possible success thrown your way gleefully, and with both hands, and worry about next season, next season.

 

I agr e t o

 

I'd feel a bit ripped off having been ***** for 50% of the season, but I suppose 4 months of winning games regularly (Which is what we would have had to get promoted) is better than the down right ***** we've had for the last 8 years, and the all too familiar struggle we'll have next season if we do go up, so I suppose you'd have to be content with a short respite rather then a season long one.

 

Once again I find myself in the minority here and I will explain why.

I am old enough to recall two promotions to the second tier, the first under Norman Hunter and the second under Andy Ritchie. In the first case, the club had a base of players raised in Barnsley (McCarthy, Joyce, Chambers and Banks). Alan Clarke spent a lot of money adding quality to those strong foundations (Evans, Glavin, Aylott, Parker and Barraclough). When we were promoted, we finished second and should have won the league that year as we were undoubtedly a better team than Rotherham, who finished above us. Not only did we have a good team, we also had a stable team that was together and ready to play at the higher level. As a result, we adapted easily to life in the second tier. Even when the team began to break up, as teams always do, there was the core strength and reputation that allowed us to recruit without pressure and recruit well. The team to survived the break up and survived for 20 years at the higher level, eventually building upon that longevity to win promotion to the Premier League. Twenty years is a very long time to make this claim, but I believe that our eventual promotion to the Premier League had its roots in the solid foundations laid down 20 years previously, even though the club went through many ups and downs in the intervening period.

Contrast that promotion to the promotion under Ritchie when we actually finished 4th and were lucky to beat Swansea in Cardiff. The team was not ready, and the funds were not available to build the solid foundations that were already in place following our previous promotion. As a result, not only did the team struggle for 7 season before eventually succumbing, but also we saw a blame culture established which saw manager after manager blamed for a situation that they had insufficient financial resources to remedy.

Looking at our present team, it is even less well prepared for promotion than was the Andy Ritchie team. There are currently 6 players on loan from other clubs, a situation that will inevitably lead to instability. The team has a new manager, who in spite of a run of 6 wins in a row, has not yet developed his own style. Neither has he been able to recruit his own players capable of implementing that passing and pressing style. If we were lucky enough to fluke promotion, the manager would have just 6 weeks to recruit perhaps 12 players and organise them into a team capable of holding their own against much better opposition. Andy Ritchie lasted barely into November when faced with a similar situation.

Sometimes it is better to manage with the head rather than the heart. The team that we have presently is functional, but it is ugly and without flair or quality. Before the last 6 results, fans perceived the team to be in a battle for survival rather than one for promotion and they are letting their hearts rule their heads and are ignoring the evidence of their own eyes. It is just possible that the team could fluke promotion, but fans should compare the subsequent histories of the winning and losing teams in Cardiff and wonder whether winning that game was the best result that the club could have hoped for.

 

I'd take issue on a couple of points :

Funds not available under Ritchie - well I'd venture that they obviously were as players flooded in when Davey took charge. What changed between the summer and Christmas of 2006 ? Did we win the lottery ? Rumour at the time was that Ritchie wouldn't spend any money. That stretches credulity to breaking point imho.

Secondly we do not operate in a vacuum. The assumption that we wait a year to build assumes that all the other clubs stay as they are and the new clubs that come into League 1 offer no threat to the top 6, thus allowing us to develop without any added pressure.

When opportunities present themselves they must be grabbed, for they may not come round again.

The meeting at the No7 seemed to hint that the mistakes of the past had been learnt from. Let's see.

FWIW I don't think we are in the top 3 teams currently, but if we get in the play-offs anything can happen.

 

No, I don't. We'll lose most of our matches and sack another manager before Christmas. That's what we do when we're struggling. The people who are singing Johnson's praises now will be claiming it was Wilson's team that got us up and since Johnson had the chance to bring in his own players we've been ****. Players with real potential will struggle, be dropped from the team and eventually released to be replaced with journey men on ridiculous contracts with no resale value. It'll put us back five years.

We've got the basis of a good squad, but it's young, inexperienced and not yet ready for the step up. A number of players have improved significantly this season but they haven't reached their potential. I want to see that improvement again next season. I want to see Holgate and Smith become regulars not dropped and loaned out. I want to see Hourihane, Berry and Scowen dominate games, not replaced by journeymen because they're bigger, stronger and harder. I want to see Winnall grab 25 goals. I want to see us have a crack at The Championship when these lads are ready and they're not there yet.

If we win promotion I'll not be complaining, it'll be brilliant, but it'll not do us any favours in the long run.

 

Yes, we get more money in the Championship.

 

If all of that happens then you are right in that it will do us no good at all. The difference is that we have a choice how we approach next season. IF we go up and IF we struggle to compete with the current squad we must stick with the current plan and not panic. If we get relegated again as a result then so be it. The players we have will have an extra year's experience and that experience will be at a higher level. We will gain extra income, which can hopefully be invested wisely.

Just because we have made all those mistakes in the past, doesn't mean we should be scared of promotion in case they are made again.

 

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. It's not a fool proof system or even a brilliant system, it doesn't mean the same patterns will definitely be repeated, but it's the best indication we've got of what will happen under similar circumstances the next time around. When Barnsley FC get in trouble they sack managers, they bring in loan players and they sign players on large contracts who offer little resale value. I believe, should we get in trouble, that's what we'll do again.

I'm not fearful of promotion, that's what I want. But I am fearful of promotion with a squad that's not ready. For the first time in years we've built strong foundations. Unfortunately, we haven't got a roof on yet. Stay in this division and I believe we can erect a strong structure. Go up and I think our foundations will be smashed to pieces. Many people who disagree with me now will be the ones demanding the removal of the manager if we're not performing in The Championship.

It's all academic like, we don't get a choice. What will be will be and if we are promoted I'll be celebrating just as much as any Barnsley fan, hoping they get it right this time. I'm not naive if enough to believe that if we're not promoted this season we will automatically be in the running for promotion next season; it doesn't work like that. But if I say I want to see promotion this season, that doesn't make it any more likely to happen either. Both scenarios are hypothetical and I'm just expressing a preference. The reality is, the manager and the team should try to win every game between now and the end of the season. If that results in promotion then great, if it doesn't then it will be disappointing, but maybe a blessing in the long run.

 

I would imagine that were we to remain in this division next season, the likes of Hourihane, Winnall, Holgate and Scowen will be on the radars of Championship clubs. The loanee lads may well return to their clubs, or be loaned out elsewhere, like to Championship clubs. We might have a ***** season and a lot of fans might not watch us much. It's all guesswork.

I'd rather we made the playoffs, had a trip to Wembley, got promotion and then get to see these lads play in the Championship for us. I won't bellyache over us going up nor staying down, but I'd prefer to achieve summat and as soon as possible.

 

Yes, I want us to get promoted every season

 

I agree that falling into the same trap we have done before would more than undo all the good work we have done. I also think that even with the best intentions it is VERY difficult in modern football to stick by a manager and a plan that are both failing in the short term as you believe it will ultimately be successful in the long term. This will require the board to be very strong in testing times to come and the fans to show an incredible amount of patience with the board, players and manager to see any real benefits of what we are trying to do.

If we went up and the board panicked and sacked LJ, brought in a load of loan players and journeymen on large contracts in an attempt to keep our heads above water I would be more angry than ever. I have faith that the board will not allow this to happen again and will be strong enough to see the plan through irrespective of what division we are in. As you already said, our opinions count for nothing as ultimately all everybody wants is to win as many football matches as possible.

 

And you won't bellyache if we're rooted to the foot of The Championship. Neither will I. Neither will plenty of others. But you know for a fact some will. That legendary vocal minority. You could probably name some of those that will do it right now. So there'll be calls for the managers head again. And coming on here will be less fun than stubbing out cigs on your hand. And the owner and the board will get twitchy. Then we really will have a poor performance like Blackburn at home December 2012 or Birmingham at home November 2013 or Fleetwood at home February 2015 and that will be that, patience gone, manager out, start again. It's happened too often for me to believe it won't happen again.

Until I'd written the above, I'd never linked those three games before and I'd never realised what they all have in common. We sacked our last 3 managers because of defensive errors. Wiseman against Blackburn, M'Voto/O'Brien against Birmingham and Nyatanga/the whole team at a corner against Fleetwood. If Wiseman hadn't let everyone and their auntie simply waltz past him (or if Hill hadn't picked the useless bleeder), if M'Voto hadn't passed the ball straight to Caddis and brought down Zigic and if O'Brien hadn't made that almighty balls up, and if Nyatanga hadn't headed the ball directly to McLaughlin and Waring hadn't flicked the ball on at the front post from a corner, we probably wouldn't have sacked any of our last 3 managers. That's what it takes to sack our managers, defensive mistakes. Do you think we won't make any should we get promoted?

 

Just cos brains trust might get lippy int a reason to stop darn.

But I know what you mean.

The club could always block this website on their computers.