Does Anybody Not On PAYE

It's theft whether it's state sanctioned theft or not. Though of course legally you are right.

 

You're wrong again.

Theft involves dishonesty.

And tax avoidance is not necessarily dishonest, if indeed it is dishonest at all.

 

It is dishonest. You have looked at the rules of tax and decided you do not wish to pay your fair share. Calculating. Worse than benefit fraud that is generally done out of need as it's just greed. If benefit fraudsters could afford consultants and lawyers they could ' legally' fiddle the benefit system ( in fact as someone who used to investigate benefit fraud I could show someone how do legally do it within seconds). Look at R v Zorlu if you want to live with a partner whilst claiming benefits as a single person you could legally get away with it if there was no financial interdependency between the two of you. Doesn't make it any less dishonest to find a loophole and exploit it. Again driving a car in some illegal manner and then denying you were the driver and getting away with it. Still dishonest but possible to get away with it.

 

I'm out of work at the moment, but if I get a new contract, should I setup a payroll?

Also I'm in receipt of a couple of pensions which add up to nearly £8000 a year, so my personal allowance is almost gone before I start.

Would it make sense to simply pay myself the whole lot as a salary and make no profit (hence pay no corporation tax)?

 

I sorry but we have to disagree. The laws are written to favour the rich and powerful and that in my opinion is immoral but not dishonest. Above you have mentioned benefit fraud and fraud is a criminal offence and that has to be dishonest.

I don't agree with the tax laws as they are but every time the government brings in a new anti avoidance provision and they do, a whole well paid industry tries to circumvent it.

Just one final point, who decides what is someones 'fair share', is it not adherence with the tax laws ? If you don't like the laws lobby for change... but good luck with that.

 

Simple example for you:

I pay 10k tax if I do not pay into a pension scheme.

If I set up a pension and pay into it I get tax relief and thus pay e.g. 2k less tax.

By so doing according to you I am a criminal, given that you are calling it theft.

Which I think is ridiculous.

 

Fair Share: Cost of running country is £750 billion.

Population: 65 million

Fair share: £11,500 tax per man woman and child.

Are you paying your fair share?

Households 18.7 million "fair share" per household £40,100 per household.

Is your household paying it's fair share?


The very highest earners - amounting to just under 3,000 people with a declared income above £2.7 million - will contribute 4.2 per cent of the total Government revenue from income tax in the current financial year.

By contrast, Britain’s nine million poorest paid workers contribute less than four per cent of the total income tax receipt.


However - on the flip side - these rich folk with dividends and shares and entrepreeneurs tax releif and capital gains tax and that are paying about 40% tax on their declared income above their tax free allowance - whilst those of us stuck in "PAYE" end up paying about 50% of everything we earn above the tax free allowance.

Fairness.........it's all about where you sit.

Personally I think everyone should have a tax free allowance and every single penny of income - however you earn it - above that flat rate should be charged at the same rate - say 40% - and forget about NI and these other complexities which provide these loop holes in the first place.

 

You could also argue the same about ISAs tax free savings and growth.

There is a line to be drawn though

 

The arguement could also be made about:

Pensions
Having savings / shares in your wifes' name
"cash in hand jobs"
Off set mortgages
Trust funds
Inheritance planning

etc etc etc.

The line seems to be drawn, however, just above the level that the person drawing the line can reach...

 

Agree with the above except for

Cash in hand jobs - tax evasion and illegal

 

If someone lived with a partner in full time employment but had no financial interdependence so it was impossible to prove that the partner contributed to the household in anyway They could claim to be a single parent and claim income Support or in work benefits such as Working and Child Tax Credits and do so perfectly legally. I put any sort of tax avoidance in the same bracket. People who do it are no better or worse they are using knowledge to gain an advantage. On a small scale it's pretty much an irrelevance but not so much when it's Starbucks or Amazon or Vodafone.

 

If I was to put £800 into a pension to save for my retirement to government would add £200 in basic rate tax relief into the pension. If I was a higher rate tax payer I should also get relief at the the marginal rate subject to certain restrictions. When 55 I could draw 25% tax free lump sum and take the balance as I wish but pay tax at the highest marginal rate. This is not me by the way I'm well past 55. Do you consider that to be tax avoidance because if you do there's a whole raft of ordinary folk including public servants who avoid.

How about ordinary folk investing in ISAs ?