Yeah, me and several million others. Now, you can either blame several million people. Or you can accept that Labour's policy on it was beyond bonkers. Up to you. Makes no difference to me.
I'm not pretending Labour are perfect - or even close. But you have to be fc uking moronic to not understand that a party with a majority in parliament is in control of the country's destiny. The OPPOSITION is there to oppose. The Government is there to govern. 3 YEARS and we're no further forward - not the SNP's problem, not the Lib Dems or Labour. The government was Conservative and DUP. All they needed to do was support their own deal
Absolutely no idea. They may have held all their northern losses but shed a few in London. It probably wouldn't have been worse than what is predicted. It is hard to envisage how it could ever be worse than what is coming tonight. It's looking like a worse result than Michael Foot in 1983.
This is most likely true, with one big addendum. Corbyn's position probably saved Labour a bigger loss, because anyone else but Corbyn as leader would have been more centre ground politically (moderate policies in a manifesto) and more Remain than him. Anyone thinking this would have won Labour more seats in these working class areas is living in cloud cuckoo land. People will point to Corbyn himself as the reason, but in the grand scheme of things that's not the problem. Brexit was. Divide and rule.
It would have been far worse on a leave platform, possibly slightly better on an unequivocal remain stance. I agree with your original sentiment that people (unfortunately) want Brexit - and Scottish independence - and Labour are stuck in the middle.
I always felt he had an impossible hand, any Labour leader would have had the same problem. The Tory vote is overwhelmingly leave. The Labour one is massively split into two between 'middle class Remain and working class Leave'. That said, I've mentioned on here before that 'middle class Remain' seemed to care not one jot for the traditional working class view of Leave. "JUST REMAIN AND WE'LL WIN" Who thinks that would have gone down any better than the policy of offering to renegotiate a deal? You can argue around the margins, but it wouldn't have given a different result imo. Divide and rule, divide and rule...
A more moderate Labour agenda, a more centrist position, with a charismatic leader and a credible Brexit stance would've mullared the Tories. The country however has never liked what looks like extreme to them.
If it was as you said that traditional working class labour voters wanted to remain... why did so many in Barnsley vote for brexit party? There are many guesses of the split in class of leave and remain voters... all are just that, guesses. For me, I think Corbyns policies stopped any remain tories changing their vote...
I said the opposite. Working class Labour wanted leave, middle class Labour wanted to remain. The seats where Labour are, and will continue to lose seats are going to be primarily working class leave. Remain Tories will and do vote Lib Dem not Labour.
You really think that the working class leave vote would have been enamoured by a centrist Remain politician offering a watered down Corbyn manifesto? I just can't see it, regardless of their charisma levels .
I suspect exit poll is over cooking some results, I'd expect to see local variations, hard to see anything too different than a Tory win though.
What's a 'credible Brexit agenda' look like? We've had 3 years and nobody could agree on anything. Divide and rule.
A credible Brexit agenda starts with respecting the democratic will of the people. And goes on from there. "Divide and rule" by the way is an old lazy phrase, used in these circumstances to attempt to excuse what's gone wrong. It is meaningless.
All you're doing is describing Labour's election position on Brexit! The same policy that's had Remainers complaining. The same one that Leavers don't like... The very one you're citing as the reason for their failure... Yet on the evidence so far it's exactly what's happening. Labour vote has been divided.
A credible Brexit agenda starts with respecting the democratic will of the people. And goes on from there. "Divide and rule" by the way is an old lazy phrase, used in these circumstances to attempt to excuse what's gone wrong. It is meaningless. Labour's election position has not been to respect the democratic will of the people as far as Brexit is concerned. As far as "divide" is concerned, it works both ways. Labour are lucky Nigel didn't withdraw all his troops and thus "divide" the right leaning vote. If he had, Labour would have been crucified.
Labour were crucified. The Brexit party probably saved them in many seats though, splitting the ex labour leave vote. first result in had a labour majority cut to 2000 and the Brexit party with over twice that many votes. That’d have almost certainly been a Tory landslide. I’ll bet there’s many more of those across the ‘red wall’. Farage might be a popular figure but he’s never understood elections. Nigel withdrawing would have helped the Tories everywhere. Edit Just looked and both Dan Jarvis and Ed Milliband would almost certainly have lost their seats to Cons without the Brexit party in the way.
