England could learn something from the Italians

RE: Now we are into marketing

the sense that i think he meant was the 'looks good with his shirt off' designer tattoos, gets girls to buy his name and number kind of brand, rather than the 'stick it in the back of the net' world class footballer kind of brand.

In marketing terms, he certainly shifts products - but more wilkinson sword / armani jeans type of products. You have to question his commitment to the game when he moves to the US, when he could certainly still be playing in the premier league.

He was world class at Man U, he wasn't as good at Madrid (IMHO) and now he isn't good enough to build the future England team on.

 

Thats very different to he's only ever been a squad player

I certainly dont think we should be building a future England team around him, but he has been a very good player

 

The point is...

Well my point, anyway, is that we may not all agree about how good he was, or is. But to say he couldn't take free kicks and was only a squad player is mind boggling. For most of his career he was playing at the highest level both for club and country. If he was only playing because of a couple of tattoos and a fit missus he would have been found out long before he got to 100 caps.

He has marketed himself very well but he could play football as well - the football had to come first to make all the other commercial stuff possible.

 

RE: Thats very different to he's only ever been a squad player

I never said he was 'only ever a squad player at best' - in his prime he commanded that position and nobody could take it off him. Unfortunately for me, his spell in his prime was far too short and he got distracted by the bright lights of fame and commercialism. Right now he is a squad player.

 

Still would argue that 'World Class' is a misused term. He's a dead ball specialist (but as Donny Red has insinuated, we only seem to remember the great ones - he has delivered some real dross) and a top class crosser of the ball.

If there was a 'special teams' unit in football, Beckham would be the first name on the list. Sadly, there's much more to football than that. His inability to head a ball, use his left foot for anything other than standing on, dictate the pace of a game or physically impose himself on one (Greece excepted, but that was a one off), do anything creative (and no, the predictable 50 yard crossfield ball doesn't count), tackle, beat players and more, easily offsets his oft-noted brilliance at set pieces and crossing.

He's a good player. He's never seen world class unless we've lowered the standards drastically.

 

I know you didnt, we are agreeing

My arguement is with Donnyred, who claimed he was only ever a squad player and his frekicks were the worst around

 

You are correct he wasnt world class but he was good

It's like another former team mate of his Gary Neville. Constantly slagged off but very good at what he did in my opinion. There must be a reason why he has been picked by every England manager since Venables and that he has won 2 European cups

 

RE: go on then tell me a player who takes a better freekick or puts in a better cross

Gerrard puts in a 5 times better cross than Beckham. He also takes a better free kick, although he doesnt always opt to take them like Beckham does.

And are we talking about in the world? because Ronaldo, Figo, Messi, Pires, Joe Cole, Cammoronesi etc all spring to mind.

 

I'm divided on the Beckham debate. He was world class in my opinion because he consistently played international football, and in the top European competition. He has played for two of the biggest clubs in the world, and he has played in Euro championships and world cups. So he must be playing at a world class standard. Doesn't put him in that high elite of the very best world class players though - he has never been a player that would have got into my best world XI. When he was at his very best, for me, Figo was always better - I'm sure there are others, but Figo was the outstanding man in that position for me. Right now there are a lot of right wingers I prefer to Beckham.

It all hangs on what you want to call 'world class' I suppose.

 

Footballs's all about opinions

I was talking english players. I would agree most of those players are better than Beckham. joe cole though, dont make me laugh. What has he ever done

I still go back to how you think that beckham's:

free kicks are possibly the worst around.

He's always been a squad player at best

That's just daft. unless the squad concerned contains Ronaldo and Figo and his freekicks are compared with Deon Burton

 

RE: Footballs's all about opinions

Well, what has Beckham ever done Cole hasn't? Coles done everything Beckham has, except one thing, win the champions league, which obviously he missed out on by a penalty.

He's also been our best player over the course of the last 4 years, no-one can dispute that. Cole is a better player than Beckham.

And if it was you who used the Greece game as an example earlier. Why was he even taking that free kick? He'd taken 8 or 9 before in the game and everyone was apaulling, glad he did like, but it shows. Not a good ratio.

And the free kicks are compared to Istvan Ferenczi's.

 

Name one england player that would be a first Xi pick for either Itly or holland.

 

LOL, you are one funny guy!

What you mean you were serious?</p>

Beckham SHOULD be an England regular, and as Knowlesy said, he's never had pace so isn't reliant upon it like some other players we have. Lennon / Owen etc have always relied on pace and won't be anywhere near as effective when they lose it.</p>

For me Beckham is still the best leader too and i'd only be too happy to see him as captain again.</p>

 

Steven Gerrard
John Terry
Rio Ferdinand
Ashley Cole
Joe Cole
Wayne Rooney

 

id have luca toni or rvn over rooney anyday

 

(blaze)

 

why both of them are more of a goal threat and target men what has rooney got better than these

 

How about footballing ability? Your comparing a footballing genuis to goalpoachers. It's like saying Van Nistelrooy is better than Bergkamp or Maradona. Just because he's got a better goalscoring average, doesn't mean he's a better player. There'd be no contest for me, or I'm sure 90% of the worlds population, Rooney walks it.

 

Centrehalf yes at a push. the rest no.

 

Eh?! nt