EU Elections

I'm sure we all like to get our own way and life can be awful sometimes I agree. Sometimes its made worse by things though and people can be in denial about the reasons why its worse than it should be.
Read this and see what you think even if you disagree.

There’s a huge, Brexit-shaped hole in this election – that’s why there’s such an air of unreality about it | Nesrine Malik https://www.theguardian.com/comment...hole-election-unreality-material-lives-voters
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It may be a dog whistle distraction but the fear is real and politicians of the centre left and right burying their heads in the sand and hoping it will go away won't resolve the issue neither will chucking the racist and/or islamaphobia slur at anyone who raises a concern about the extent of immigration both legal and illegal. The rise of the far right in this country and in the rest of the European continent doesn't come from nowhere and pretending it's just a few mad racists will lead to a far right party actually gaining power in a major European country, just like trying to ignore the people wanting change from the EU ended up with Brexit in this country.

 

Given that pretty much all the legal immigration is badly needed for the running and growth of the economy and that there are rules in place for the granting or otherwise of asylum what's your problem exactly? Other than, of course, the Tories' refusal to expedite the asylum system properly.

 

Or the Tories refusal to invest in the infrastructure required to support the immigration that they want to grow the economy. Cutting services everywhere while increasing the population is one way to increase the right-wing vote which they hoped to benefit from.

 

They're not burying their heads, they know it's an issue but they don't care because big businesses can continue to make their big profits and they can run public services (see Social Care) on a shoe string via cheap, low paid labour.

That's the issue that anyone with a modicum of common sense would be pushing back against.

 

I've often found it odd how areas which are least impacted (in terms of numbers) by migration often tend to be the ones with the highest voting record complaining against it. I saw a stat the other day that suggested Clacton, where the Reform chancer is standing, was 96% white British. Yet migration is supposedly one of the biggest issues there, if not the biggest.

The problem we have is that far right and populist parties (and their media enablers) whip up hatred and fear of often imagined and perceived threats which so happen to be around a minority group. And generally offer little in the way of solution that is possible, or humane.

While ever there is war, poverty and inequality in large parts of the world, there will be asylum seekers looking to find a haven. When climate change really kicks in, there will be significant displacement as some areas become uninhabitable and that will make current migration numbers look non existent.

Perhaps also ironic that far right populism suggests climate change isn't real. I'm not sure how they'll square that when exodus is the norm.

 

My brother in law and his sons both voted UKIP and for Brexit due to immigration. His wife and their mother is the daughter of a Polish immigrant after WW2.

Absolutely nuts.

 

Anybody who supports uncontrolled immigration is kidding themselves with this narrative that it's good for the country.

Controlled immigration is good for the country and areas like our NHS do benefit from this, but certainly not uncontrolled as we have seen from both Tory and the previous Labour govs.

It's absolutely crazy to suggest that our national infrastructure could cope with such levels which are in to the millions. Housing / Education / Welfare / NHS to name a few.

It's certainly not racist to suggest a developed country such as the UK should be under such strain in terms of the public services which ultimately impact everyone in the country with a few ultra rich exceptions who are blind to normal life.

I'm going to have a look through the manifesto of each party standing but 100% will not vote for a party who believes uncontrolled immigration is the way forward and doesn't suggest any sort of controls to be put in place.

We had (still have) a massive opportunity post brexit to introduce sensible and fair practices around immigration but the Tory governments trying to appease certain factions have currently made a real hash of implementing brexit and our relationship with the EU.

 

I think what people don't like are headline cases, such as the lovely person who had failed asylum claims in multiple European countries, then came to the UK to try his luck, had been rejected, again, still hanging around and was able to roam the streets of Hartlepool and stab a pensioner to death in cold blood. Because his God willed it.
Until you can actually show that the system can separate genuine cases from nut cases then people are just going to say, you have to stop everyone then. And this is not an isolated case.

 

Labour have said they will address immigration and Asylum seekers issue. Let’s face it, just by giving the resources after cut back after cutback is a start. Making the issue worse then using it as an election pledge will lay with the Tories.

 

So what about British people, born here, white and privileged... who commit crimes... because.... well whatever? Do we burn all white people at the stake?

We can't use very isolated instances to feed into fears and phobias (stoked by people who just want the power that gives them) and create blanket policies that resultingly demonise minority groups.

To class all african people the same is ridiculous, to suggest all muslims are the same is ridiculous. Especially when those ridiculous insinuations are that they are all would be murderers.

 

Each to his own opinion, but it amazes me that even now some folk persist with this narrative that there was a good way to implement what was just a very bad and damaging idea. It's alarming to witness just how easily some folk were conned.

 

Like you say each to their own and no point in having back and forth for the 10 millionth time. But IMHO it had to be done, just the way the political entwinement was going with more decisions wanted to be be made at EU level not national level. Vetoes being removed slowly in favour of majority voting at EU level. We as people in the UK have no real power in who forms the European commission, where all the power really sits, we just have a handful of MEP's in a big swamp. As an Island nation, we had far less natural issues in common than those in the EU connected through land borders.

Look at how the EU voting is going, moving towards the right. So some people on here with views to the left of centre wouldn't be too impressed when for instance our few MEP's who may share their views just get constantly out voted in Europe with no veto. Eventually maybe being forced to adopt the Euro (all very possible with no veto).

Not for me one bit. I've always maintained that being the main driver behind my vote to leave. I would have loved to have kept out trading relationship the same, freedom of movement for travel and work, controlled immigration to settle. But the political element was moving too far out of reach and will continue to do so without massive changes in the EU which the powers that be do not want to happen.

So I'd rather have an incompetent government that we can get rid of completely every 5 years than be stuck with another out of control tier that we have hardly any control over. We may have taken a hit economically in the shorter term, but long term I think the people in this country will see what starts to happen in the EU and be thankful we got out when we did.

 

So because citizens of this country commit crime, we should accept people who aren't citizens - and have no right to be here - coming here and committing crime? I don't think many people will understand your logic tbh.

 

I'm extending your expressed logic that someone comes here, commits crime, so anyone who comes here is treated as a would be criminal. So at least you can see how ridiculous it is on some level. Sadly, there are far too many who do think that indeed is logical.

 

Interesting views.

Commission members, as I understand it are nominated by the Council. Our representative on the Council is our head of government, who is elected. The overall membership of the Commission is then subject to approval by the EU Parliament, which is of course directly elected. So while it is convoluted, I think we do have input to who is on the Commission. Contrast that for example with how our own upper chamber is appointed. The latest EU Parliament election has indicated a drift to the right, but I read that the centrists retain a (reduced) majority. Our own lurch to the right is currently being found wanting in terms of producing solutions and bringing about social justice. That looks about to be corrected. Europe may well come to the same conclusion in time.

I like the idea of a consensual over-arching structure which maintains standards in relation to e.g. employee rights, environmental issues and health and safety of citizens. The Conservatives have indicated their willingness to depart from these safeguards and also to compromise our agreed human rights, which sit apart from the EU in any event. There has never been any suggestion that we would have to adopt the Euro, although I'd agree with that in a flash. I do think that that would be the price of our rejoining though, which in my view will preclude it from happening in my lifetime.

Unless measures are taken to bring us back closer to Europe I feel that far from being 'short term', the financial damage will continue to hinder our economic progress for decades. Friction in trading arrangements has to do. If I'm right about that then I think our citizens - far from being thankful we got out - will rue the day. Them as lives longest will see t'most, as Shakespeare almost said!

 

I’m just glad we got out of the EU and unelected beurocrats so we can be governed by people like Rishi Sunak, who was chosen as leader by about 300 tories and David Cameron, who was voted for by nobody.

Rule Brittania

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It amazes me that from time to time I actually agree with you....

 

We clearly need to rejoin. The economic and cultural arguments are irrefutable. Despite the lurch to the right we still share a common history and have a proud legacy of working for a common good. A few xenophobes will complain because of different cultural standards, but they must be confronted with the fundamental truth that we'd be better off in. Yes, it's time for us to rejoin our American cousins and become the 51st state of the USA.