From UK scientists for EU “I think people in this country have had enough of experts!” - that's what Michael Gove said tonight. Really? So no more expert opinion on the economy or NHS? Dismiss those health professionals, research scientists, economic bodies, etc? If not experts - then in whom should we put our faith for reliable information and an informed debate? Politicians? Trust yer gut? To suggest that independent experts are bought out or have vested interests other than caring about our country is deeply demeaning. It's the standard playbook of the demagogue to dismiss first the universities, academics, learned bodies. Most pertinently with the NHS's future - we see a Vote Leave campaign hijacking this area and pulling public opinion far out of line with what the health professionals say. Slogans beat measured experience. Is this what guides our policy? Gove would have us listen to experts less and his own spin more - even though the small political elite are already dominating the broadcast media with claim and counter-claim. The public are not getting at rational balanced debate from those who know what they are talking about... It is to the detriment of debate, our national reputation and our country's future.
I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative but what deal are you suggesting then? Having access to the EU single market means that we have to accept free movement of labour - that is a fact.
if they get on with putting a (long) qualifying time on the stuff the freeloaders come for it wouldn't be so much of an issue, we would then hopefully just get people who want to work, although there's still the problem of overworked over stuffed services obviously. Then impose the same restrictions that Australia have, if they can take part in Eurovision surely we could quote them as an example!
Don't worry about being argumentative...I certainly don't take it that way , I'm just trying to provoke a sensible reasoned discussion away from the Fleet St. bull. Actually it's not one of my issues at all...it may be for the right wing case though..I've put up for discussion a left wing case. My answer would be The EU concludes trade deals with countries all over the world and cannot impose free movements of people. It would be up to a hopefully post Cameron Govt to make the deal that suits us.
Hope not otherwise it'll be the older generation leaving the younger generation saddled with another mess to try and sort out.
I've numerous friends who work in the NHS. Not one single one of them wants to leave the EU. It may be the prevailing view on one part of the NHS (location dependent i would suggest), but that doesnt mean its the accurate view for the entire NHS population.
Norway (having visited and spoken to Norwegian nationals) have considerable migration and social mobility issues, especially in the north. They have high levels of unemployment, high levels of benefit claimants and "working holidays" from EU nationals is not uncommon. And they aren't even in the EU. Yet pay around 65% of what they would pay should they be a full member state. So it perplexes me to hear Norway is this utopia we should lean towards upon leaving the EU. Or maybe the outers don't expect people to know any facts about their situation.
FAO manxtyke OK, I'm going to bite. Is there really any need to be quite so obnoxious in how you tell people what your opinion is? You'd like Britain to leave, we get it. Some other people don't. Some people would like to talk about it as it isn't as cut and dried a situation as you seem to think it is. With attitudes like yours though, I can see why some people in Europe might be hoping for a Leave vote...
I haven't seen anyone post that Norway is the utopia ... certainly in the threads of the last few days....I have seen quite a number suggesting the only Brexit option would be the Norway Deal though.
Earlier today.... a woman (retired i'd assume) in front of me started engaging in a discussion as I was stood a checkout... somehow it got onto the EU. Her stance was that she was undecided. Then started on a set of opinions that were all pro exit. Turns out she lives in Spain for several months a year. She was sure that a no vote would mean the EU would bend over backwards, and we'd stay in anyway. A no vote wouldn't mean no in her mind. And in her exact words.... "even if we did (exit), we were fine for years before we joined" She left the checkout having commented on how polite the lady at the til was. Who just happened to be from Latvia (I asked her having clocking her accent wasn't broad barnsley!)
Leaving the constraints and danger of the EU isn't an end point in itself - it's part of a progression to get the UK to a point where it can trade freely with the world as it chooses, and can once again govern itself. It will take years, but the process need not be the Armageddon that the in campaign constantly try and scare people with. Nor is it the instant panacea to all our troubles that Farage etc make out. http://www.adamsmith.org/the-liberal-case-for-leave/
There might be a lot of truth in that as many folk are frightened to death of any sort of change But you have to ask yourself a simple question......if the government gets its act together and builds a million more houses and builds 100s of miles of motorways while investing heavily in the NHS so we have an even better country than we have now - then what effect would this have on immigration into this country? In other words - with open door immigration then Britain has to run like hell just to stand still to maintain our quality of life. Alternatively- an immigration points system would allow us to cherry pick who we want when we want them
Re: It's all piffle OK lets just pick on the one bit I know about "Britain has the best universities" No it does not! We have the second best university in the world, but most of our universities are well down the world ranking. Plus they are very expensive for UK students. However being in Europe means our students can go to better universities for free! University research is now very expensive and to function effectively it helps greatly being in Europe. More funds are available and its much easier to work with others within Europe than if we left. I am about to take over running a university outside Europe. Would I want to collaborate with a British university outside Europe. No, there will be reduced funds and more admin. Do I want to collaborate with groups of universities across Europe including the UK. Yes
Re: It's all piffle My son and all his friends went to Uni in the UK...none went and got the free university abroad...how widespread is that practise. As far as cooperating..what is to stop anyone cooperating..it's a matter of will and common purpose not politics . British Universities have cooperated with others all over the world for ever...why should that stop?