FAO Dan Jarvis..

Good reply Jay. It can only work though if President Assad and the rebel forces actually want to talk and want to put aside their differences. While we're at it we could make Israel and Palestine do the same.

 

Obviously, it wouldn't be easy. But the difference between Israel and Palestine and what's going on in Syria is that those in Syria do actually have a common enemy and a common goal. An enemy they hate more than each other.

 

A bit like SM and Conan with Lee Johnson.

 

This middle east issue certainly is not of a minor nature like the problems at the well.

 

Oh I don't know, the supposed problems at Oakwell seem to consume some people totally.

 

It was very much tounge in cheek given I am the tightest person in the world.

And ill need it for my wembley ticket.

 

The thing is people keep holding the opinion that because these IS types act like savages fhey lack infellegence.

Which is a folly within its self.

IS is a self funded organised movement whos reaches are not just in iraq and syria but also in turkey north africa and mainland europe.

This we have to remember is an otganisation whos members have managed to traveel to and from syria with little restriction on their movement, plot atrocities etc with pittle in the way of discovery by the intelligence types.

Bombing them will not rid us of them.

As the most dangerous types are already here amongst us.

 

You're usually quite accurate with your posts Jay but I think you're way off in this. I can't go into detail due to time but I will summarise.

There is no way we will negotiate with Assad; once we've dealt with ISIS he will be next. I'm not even sure what state the relationship between the Arab league and Assad is these days. It's old news but they suspended peace talks at one point.

ISIS are the biggest, richest most powerful terrorist organisation in the world today and their brutality eclipses anything we've ever seen. Their reach is worldwide and their atrocities will continue until they are eradicated.

I can't back up the claim by Fallon that there have been no innocent lives lost to the UK bombing campaign in Iraq but I'm pretty sure he'd have been torn apart by opposition MPs if he was being disingenuous.

It seems strange that you claim IS shouldn't be feared but we should fear the outcome of bombing in Syria. There are parts of Iraq where they see the UK as their liberators and there are already thousands of displaced and persecuted men, women and children who are desperate to see their country freed from the evil that is IS.

We have the technology to reduce collateral damage to an absolute minimum, and if the claim about Iraq is true then even better.

I don't think anybody will celebrate the bombing but in my opinion it's a necessary action.

 

They are a very clever organisation run by intelligent people. You dont get to be the richest terrorist organisation ever, get funding from your enemies and operate globally without intellect. They are well educated and have a mission statement which is based on the creation of fear. They also have a business plan that attempts to drain countries resources through military intervention, like Jordan. The UK Gov have given them EXACTLY what they want in us joining the bombing of Syria. Spending more money wastefully, creating fear on our own soil due to our step up of war and pulling in more of the 'on the fence' liberal sympathizers to join their club. I just wish we had a government with as much intelligence.

 

For a radical group holding stretches of land supposedly surrounded by states that are supposedly committed enemies they don't half do well to produce dispatch and sell the oil that's sustaining them.

PS
Its only £1 a litre here .just saying

 

Now they've started bombing they've just said that it "could last years".


Well, fancy that. Amazing they didn't say that before, no?

 

Assad is backed militarily by Russia and China, along with Iran. Assad is still in power because he's being supported by those countries. The US and other European countries want him out. This is the joining of a proxy war where groups are being armed left, right and centre to fight on behalf of foreign countries to fight on their behalf. The reason negotiations won't work is because the foreign powers supporting and opposing him want different outcomes. That siad there should be more dialogue to try and find an acceptable dissolution of his rule. Even then it doesn't sort out the mess that will still exist. Just look at the armed groups in this conflict. They don't like ISIS, but most are not fighting them. They are fighting each other and will continue to do so even if Isis were bombed out of existence - which as Lord Dannett said yesterday "Is very unlikely to happen".

As predicted by those opposing the war in Iraq, foreign militia entered the country and took up arms against occupying forces and the Iraqi (largely Shia based) army. One of those was a Jordanian who found allies in Saddam Hussain's former Sunni senior army officers. That was to become ISIS. It attracted fighters from all over the ME and of course European countries. They now have access to oil money which is funding their activites, Turkey being a country that is apparently buying oil from them (Turkey incidentally currently gets much of its power from Russia).

Well if there are no reports, then it didn't happen. Right? It's bunkum of course. You don't drop bombs without there being civilian deaths. Raqqa has 150,000 people in it and 8,000 estimated ISIS fighters. With the best will in the world you'd have to be a fool or an idiot to think deaths wont' occur.

Liberation from what to what? It's a subjective term.

A naive simplification of a complex subject does not equal a good argument.

 

He voted for the air strikes.

 

Assad is backed militarily by Russia and China, along with Iran. Assad is still in power because he's being supported by those countries. The US and other European countries want him out. This is the joining of a proxy war where groups are being armed left, right and centre to fight on behalf of foreign countries to fight on their behalf. The reason negotiations won't work is because the foreign powers supporting and opposing him want different outcomes. That siad there should be more dialogue to try and find an acceptable dissolution of his rule. Even then it doesn't sort out the mess that will still exist. Just look at the armed groups in this conflict. They don't like ISIS, but most are not fighting them. They are fighting each other and will continue to do so even if Isis were bombed out of existence - which as Lord Dannett said yesterday "Is very unlikely to happen".

As predicted by those opposing the war in Iraq, foreign militia entered the country and took up arms against occupying forces and the Iraqi (largely Shia based) army. One of those was a Jordanian who found allies in Saddam Hussain's former Sunni senior army officers. That was to become ISIS. It attracted fighters from all over the ME and of course European countries. They now have access to oil money which is funding their activites, Turkey being a country that is apparently buying oil from them (Turkey incidentally currently gets much of its power from Russia).

Well if there are no reports, then it didn't happen. Right? It's bunkum of course. You don't drop bombs without there being civilian deaths. Raqqa has 150,000 people in it and 8,000 estimated ISIS fighters. With the best will in the world you'd have to be a fool or an idiot to think deaths wont' occur.

Liberation from what to what? It's a subjective term.

A naive simplification of a complex subject does not equal a good argument.

 

Who says today is Thursday ?

 

They are obviously highly intelligent, get killed, leave this earth and acquire 22 virgins.

 

ROFL.

...but no, seriously, who says the people of Barnsley Central back these strikes? It's a baseless statement to make.

 

All Male I hear

 

I contacted Dan Jarvis to note my opposition to the proposed bombing in Syria. I accept it may well be a minority view but I am not a 'soft leftie.'

Does anyone really think a joint !!! project involving Turkey Russia et al can possibly work?

 

Before I get into the detail underpinning why I voted in the way I did in Parliament, you should be aware that this is a decision I have not arrived at lightly. To inform that decision, I have consulted my constituents, I have taken expert advice and I have listened very carefully to the evidence that has been presented on both sides. We also had a full debate about this issue at last week's CLP meeting.

In addition, I also attended the National Security Council where I discussed these matters in detail with the Prime Minster, the Foreign Secretary, the Defence Secretary, the Secretary of State for International Development, the National Security Advisor, the Heads of all the Intelligence Services, the Chief of the Defence Staff, and a range of other officials across Whitehall. I have also discussed this matter with a variety of Non-Government Organisations, charities, think-tanks and academics, as well as back-bench and front-bench colleagues in Parliament.
Dan Jarvis