Harsh but fair.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Jimmy viz, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Don’t agree with you too much there. The article isnt perfect and I am not sure that using Brown and Markle are the perfect candidates but the general thrust of the article is spot on. The EU isn’t perfect far from it but the way we have imposed massive barriers to trade in both directions is just dumb. The hard facts are that our trade with Europe has plummeted

    Of course from where we are now hit by the double whammy of Covid and leaving the Single market and customs union things will recover somewhat but it’s hard to find many trade experts who think we are benefiting from such a hard exit.
     
  2. Lor

    Lordtyke Well-Known Member

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    He didn't base the assertion of Britain being dumb off that interview. He used it as an example of the racist bigotry existing within society.
    He clearly states that the rot started in 2007 with the imposition of "austerity" measures instead of investment, and the descent of society into a "little englander" mentality (my words there) and the media manipulation and downright lies of the Tory government.
    There is no mention of our economy threatening to bounce back simply because it's an opinion-of government analysts-and we all trust them to tell the truth don't we?

    Whilst the article has the strong views of the author throughout, there is little to argue against.
    In general we have become a society of intolerant uncaring, I'm alright jack litterbugs who hate all things and people not of White Anglo-Saxon protestant descent. Dem Jonny Forriners n' all yah know.
    You only have to see what Twitter, Facebook etc contains to see the level of dumbness prevalent in a sizeable section of society.
    Leaving the EU to me wasn't just about trade, it was the loss of the opportunity of future generations to experience friendship, culture, different viewpoints, tolerance, co-operation, and the elimination of war which has killed tens of millions over the last 2 centuries.
    We've retreated into our crumbling castle, pulled up the drawbridge, and now sit in our own mess, an impoverished, isolated, bitter and dysfunctional society eagerly looking for someone to blame. Led by a vacuous, lying, womanising, cheating clown and supported by grubby clueless charlatans whose only skills are how to manipulate the masses whilst feeding their mates huge sums of public money for worthless PPE.
    The article isn't perfect, but pretty much captures the situation.
    We are truly the sick man of Europe-and deserve to be.
     
  3. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    It's also part of a Stewart Lee joke.
     
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  4. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I'm confused mate. You've not actually disagreed with anything I've said? I never said the article was incorrect, or that the EU was perfect, or that we were in a good place. I just talked about the balance it failed to mention. I also never said that trade experts were thinking we were benefitting - just that our recovery forecast is improving all the time and it doesn't talk about any of that.

    It's a bit OTT for me, repeats the Megan Markle link right at the start and then again midway through, so I think you're actually agreeing with me as they're not the most credible examples to use? We're definitely not in a good place but one sided articles like this just don't work for me.
     
  5. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    If it’s a hatchet job then surely all the points must be invalid. The NHS part is spot on, a Nation that can sit back, do virtually nothing and watch it buckle and allow some of it’s politicians gleefully watch it’s piecemeal privatisation, as they themselves profit financially, deserves to be called stupid.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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  6. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Be careful. You'll be accused of being an apologist for questioning the balance of an article. That line you quoted is the one for me. Might be true for a tiny portion of society but is not reflective of the country as a whole. The knuckle draggers we're seeing now have always been there, they haven't just surfaced out of nowhere, it's just now there's a platform for them to be far more visible. But anything these morons post on social media gets shared far and wide as an example of the whole country. It's annoying that they're part of the population at all but it isn't representative.
     
  7. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    What about the balance of his post , ‘ a hatchet job pure and simple ‘ then says some points are valid? I don’t think he’s being an apologist, however, the rise in Nationalism is real and often follows an economic decline.
     
  8. Sim

    Simon De Montforte Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hell, cheer up mate, we're 5th in the table, no need to be despondent.
     
  9. Lor

    Lordtyke Well-Known Member

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    This obsession with the Markle interview is I think clouding the thrust of the article.
    "a nation that imploded into stupidity, ugliness, hate, brutality, ignorance, greed, racism — all of which were on vivid display as Meghan Markle recounted how badly she’d been treated'
    I agree that statement is a bit OTT, I didn't see any of that in the interview, just Markle saying she felt badly treated and subject to overt racist comments.

    As for a tiny portion of society I think it's more than a tiny portion exhibiting this behaviour. It's a substantial bunch of people who have absolutely no respect for the law, for other people, for the environment, for themselves even. There are people who actually think that Britain won the war! And that we are as a race superior to all the forriners. Kids having kids having kids is a fertile breeding ground for this kind of outlook.
    For me the article does have a bias, and obviously so, but I think he gets far more right than wrong.
     
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  10. Lor

    Lordtyke Well-Known Member

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    I'm not despondent SDM ;)
    Just disappointed in how society in general is deteriorating, and the crap behaviours, rioting, appalling littering of everywhere, followed by TV experts being rolled out to excuse it.

    It's not the country I grew up in and I know I can't change it.

    I have my first grandchild on the way and I dread to think what (she) will be born into.
    The difference I am lamenting somewhat is that I grew up in poverty, but there was a community spirit and help, you could depend on people's kindness and togetherness and people and us kids had respect for each other
    Today growing up in poverty there is none of that help or support from neighbours. People look the other way, drugs and violence are rife, there is no community spirit in most areas. Kids don't give a **** and there is no consequence for crap behaviour.

    But I'm not despondent, except to say I had a vivid dream last night that we lost 3-1 to Reading :(
     
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  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    There's more balance in that post than the article we're discussing though. In my opinion only obviously. But it's not really something I'm passionate about or care about, so I'm happy for people to see it the other way. I just wanted to give my thoughts on the credibility and lack of balance, and as I've said OTT articles like this just turn me off and I think that's the case for a large percentage of Britain who don't naturally align to the left or right. Doesn't mean I disagree with them or think they're completely wrong, but the style just turns me off.
     
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  12. North Yorks Red

    North Yorks Red Well-Known Member

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    It was my fault I missed the word ‘attempted ‘ off but when I noticed it had been commented on so didn’t want to change it then
     
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  13. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, I agree with what’s already been said about the bias (even though there is criticism of both right and left) but there are serious points in there that make the article credible, if not totally agreeable
     
  14. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    It's really sad to read you having this view of the world (or the UK) and in many cases you're completely right. But I also think your views here aren't a true reflection of society as a whole. Maybe it's a case that a bigger percentage cared more previously and the gap between the extremes of caring and not caring wasn't as big as it is now, but there's hundreds of thousands of people being kind to each other every single day.

    The way communities have come together during the last 12 months has been astounding. Businesses that didn't know how they were going to pay their next bill or when they might open again, still actively supporting their community and good causes. The amount of charity work we see these days can sometimes be guilty of being too much, but it's tremendous.

    The attitude of young people towards the planet is heart warming. Saying 'kids don't give a s***' is unfair on kids. It's a sweeping statement and for every kid I see or interact with that is like that, I see another kid (probably more) who isn't like that. What gets more coverage by the media or gets shared the most on social? Kids just being generally nice or kids being the opposite? The latter sadly. But that doesn't mean it's reflective of our country.

    I think we have our flaws in the UK like every place on Earth does. But it's still a fantastic place to live with some of the best people in the world.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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  15. Blo

    Blood red sky Active Member

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    Fantastic post. I must admit to some despondency when I look around me. We can all blame whatever for the world we live in but surely the basics ie manners, kindness, helping others etc starts at home. Personal responsibility seems to be lacking in society today. We seem to be entering a culture where it is much easier to look for something or someone else to blame. I do worry, like you, for my grandkids but I'm sure they will get basic morals in the right order.
    Keep Meite quiet tonight and a 2-1 win !!
     
  16. StatisTYKE

    StatisTYKE Well-Known Member

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    Nail on head. To me this is at the root of everything.

    We have no communities any more. I doubt anyone who wasn’t born and brought up in communities like ours in the 50s/60s/70s would even understand what that sense of community (with its good and bad) was like.
     
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  17. Gegenpresser

    Gegenpresser Well-Known Member

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    Most of the article is based on opinion rather than fact.

    It would be a fact if it was raining outside. It would be an opinion to consider something responsible for the rain, but this bloke would find someone to blame.At least he's got it in for both political extremes, so I ought to like him really.

    I'm sure your in laws are wonderful people despite their judgement on our idiocy. Have they had their jab yet btw? There's a significant proportion of the French population who are less than pro-EU.

    Your last sentence has nothing to do with anything I've posted.
     
  18. blivy

    blivy Well-Known Member

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    He lost me pretty early on with just one of the crazy suggestions that Britain has become more racist over the last 20 years. Of course the evidence points to completely the opposite, but that wouldn’t fit the rhetoric.

    Pretty trashy journalism, if you can call it that.
     
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  19. Lor

    Lordtyke Well-Known Member

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    What evidence can you point to that proves there's less racism now than 20 years ago?
    There been huge publicity, protests and media criticism of increasing racism in this country for some time now. Every week another footballer or star announc they've been subject to racist abuse, so I'm genuinely interested in the evidence to the contrary
     
  20. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    There's probably no concrete evidence either way - it's just that there are more platforms for knuckle dragging racists to spew their bile on.

    That's not to say that it hasn't increased of course, I don't think it's a metric you can measure definitively - even if it does appear this way.
     
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