Hillsborough Enquiry....

We're not that far apart in all honesty, but if you blame football hooligans then some of those are Liverpool fans.
Now they were not to blame on that day (as decided by the jurors) however they are to blame for events leading up to that day, just a random sample from the report.

2.2.23 He advised that 'generally speaking if things are going well for Liverpool supporters crowd management should be reasonably well achieved, however should things in any way not go well [with] them then they had proved extremely difficult to contain and moods would easily change'.

2.2.24 Reflecting on an incident at a Sheffield Wednesday v Liverpool league match, Sheffield Wednesday supporters had been transferred to the Leppings Lane terrace where 'Liverpool supporters went wild attempting to scale the fencing in an attempt to get to the Sheffield Wednesday supporters. It was necessary for some officers to draw truncheons to contain the Liverpool supporters'.

 

So football fans in general then

 

This is far from a black and white issue where either the fans were to blame or the police/authorities.

To deny that the excessive pressure of fans trying to get into the ground was a factor is naive and ignores the facts. A leading football sociologist (and Liverpool fan) John Williams freely admits that a minority of Liverpool fans on the day did try to to force their way in without tickets. So, in a sense of the word, of course this contributed.

But what has been decided today is in legal terms, and so the word 'contribute' takes on a very different meaning. It is then to do with culpability in legal terms. Did fans act in a way that directly endangered others? Of course not. There is no reason to expect them to have known their actions would result in the tragedy.

Did the ineptitude of those who were paid and trained to ensure that spectator events like this were safe and that any crushes should have been avoided contribute to the deaths, as neglect of a duty of care? Yes, a jury has decided today.

The blame is certainly not with any of the fans, but the professionals who didn't do their job.

 

Re: The other thing

Fair enough, not doubting you but what I meant is, I have heard Hillsborough mentioned loads without looking for it but Heyshel nothing like as much, probably because the Liverpool fans were widely held to blame.

 

Everything is about that day, no other.
The blame rests purely with the authorities, no one else. They had the responsibility to ensure everyone in the stadium were safe. When they failed with that, they then deliberately spent the next twenty odd years covering up and passing the blame onto Liverpool fans. Many fans from other clubs were only too willing to accept these lies as facts due to their own preconceived, biased ideas and even after the enquiry has proved them to be lies, some folk can't accept the truth. This extremely thorough inquest has finally laid to rest these lies and deceptions.

 

If that were the case.
Then the match should not have gone ahead.
It is the polices duty for safety at popular events it is their responsibility to ensure everyone is safe whether fan hooligan bystander or resident ,
If they could not guarantee the event is postponed ,/ cancelled .
They did not cancelled because of procedures at previous events were adequate even accounting for drunks,hooligans,pickpockets whatever.
These procedures were ignored by an inexperienced officer who in his arrogance sought no advice and in an unprecedented act opened the gates to an allegedly unruly mob into an already overcrowded and dangerous area.

 

Re: The other thing

No agenda at all Marlon, just saying what I think based on MY experience in football and my observations at similar games.
Did I ask you if you had an agenda or are a closet Liverpool fan given your obvious inclination to believe everything in their favour.
Good grief I said I was glad that people were being brought to justice for the lies and cover ups just that it seems to have swung totally the other way
The nearest thing I have to an agenda is I get annoyed the way the Liverpool fans are held up as the epitome of the perfect football fan where as anybody who has been to Anfield knows they are no different to others in fact a lot worse than most.

 

These are just quotes from Duckenfield, taken within a report. I'm not sure what this proves other than to confirm his and police's pervasive attitude of public safety being a secondary consideration to public order that was at the root cause of the disaster

 

Re: The other thing

i think its obvious why hillsborough has been mentioned over and over again and thats because they have been fighting for justice ever since they were handed all the blame for what happened.

 

Re: The other thing

Why does it matter I'd I were a closet liverpool fan?
I'm not by the way ,just a big believer in justice , and blaming drunk fans who I'm also not a fan of by the way,everybody likes a drink nobody likes a drunk n all that . and I'm also not sticking up for the scum that attaches themselves to football clubs or whatever. In fact I encountered some of ours at Wembley who were intent on standing up in front of young and frail fans alike and giving abuse when politely asked to sit to enable them to view.
But do i expect the police and authorities to be responsible for my safety certainly not. Do I expect them to be allowed to push scramble and endanger my life? Certainly
I expect a trained, knowledgeable ,experienced police force armed with previous last few years experience in those situations to protect me, not to open gates and let hundreds of the knobgeads crush the life out of me and my loved ones.

 

Re: The other thing

It was you that accused me of having an agenda so I queried yours, equally I never specifically mentioned drunk fans either, I just said that I went to quite a few big games in that era and what my experiences were then you went off on one!

 

Re: The other thing

Yes I did because of the typical scousers bit.or have you forgot ?

 

Probably because the jury were told to !!!

How come there seems to have been NO mention of fans turning up without tickets in their hundreds, late and drunk? ??

Why on earth go to such an event without a ticket in the first place? Buy then the Liverpool fans have always done that and got away with it ...

 

Re: The other thing

To me the other parties to blame were the Government or whoever insisted on the erection of fences, also Sheffield Wednesday whose safety certificate was out of dare.

 

Re: The other thing

which bit was that then?

 

Re: The other thing

I see S Yorkshires finest have issued an apology ..its not going to bring them back is it....for me all those guilty of the cover up should now be hung out to dry..regardless off who the are... any other case,, if it was joe public they would be on it like a fly to a pile of *****...makes my blood boil the lying Barstewards

 

Loads more milage in this via the courts.
It's the lying and perverting the course of justice that will now be underway.....get ready sy police.
The alteration and hiding of statements and documents by people we trust to keep us safe is scandalous.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football...-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

read this,it really is shocking what happened that day.

 

You say everything is about that day, no other, then talk about the next 20 odd years !

 

Re: The other thing

I suggest you look at your posts for reference I'm not gonna keep reminding you what you've put
Your views are obsolete after today's long time coming correct verdict.