Hillsbrough

Everton fans on Tuesday singing,

"You're always the victim,
Its never your fault . . . ."

Summing Liverpool Football Club and its supporters up in one little song.

 

LOL!! No the article was about their different version of events on the day. If you google it it's on various forums that Liverpool fans said it was Chelsea's C18 that were at Heysel. Liverpools then chairman John Smith was also quoted as saying the same

 

Only telling you what i've read!

 

I can't talk to you about this

I'll end up shouting and swearing at you.

 

Re: Everton fans on Tuesday singing,

Also known as the grief junkies.....

 

Thanks for that, and perhaps you are right that I do have a blind spot on it. Actually that "prejudical opinion of Liverpool" stems from this, prior to Hillsborough I liked Liverpool FC but that changed it. Perhaps, yes, I've formed my opinion back then and stuck with it....but whilst I accept that the police and the authorities bare the bulk of the blame, it's always been this attitude that the fans (not the dead I hasten to add) were completely and utterly innocent that gets my goat. It's maybe a natural reaction that a community will close in to defend itself but I still believe that they shared some, if but a small part, of the blame, and I don't think I'll ever shake that belief.

I should just hold back from posting whenever this subject crops up.

 

Re: I can't talk to you about this

I've no idea if you are talking to me because I don't view in threaded! But if so.....fair enough.....I'm stepping back from this thread, I'm not going to add or subtract to anything I've already written.

 

Liverpool fans would, once they found out the true extent of the damage they had caused.

 

I suppose I expect to disagree with people on this subject, it just always suprises me its with you. I did my undergrad History thesis on the Hillsborough disaster, partly the causes but mainly focusing on the political and cultural context of the time that lead to the fans being blamed so it is a subject I get very passionate about. Spending an entire summer in front of a microfilm machine witnessing how large sections of the British press treated the victims and their families like criminals, and the anonymous 'stories' which were fed to them by senior police officers, does that to you.

Anyway, lets leave it and agree wholeheartedly on the next topic.

 

There's a mention of it here in this article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/apr/03/newsstory.sport14

 

Yes, if they ad been climbing over the gate, then no, but they were let in...

 

FAO DavidCurriesLoveChild

Please could you direct me to any books or legal reports that come to the conclusion you state to be true.

I know I can point you towards numerous obejective, academic and legal reports that rubbish this myth that was created by one of the lowest, oxygen-thieving editors of a so called Newspaper.

 

Re: Everton fans on Tuesday singing,

They have a point.

 

Re: It didn't happen!

The article he refers to is in the beeb news app. It makes suggestions at the police from merseyside laid the blame at the feet of the Liverpool fans commenting on a letter sent to thatcher by one of her aides after they had attended a meeting. The article does state that these comments were said in the immediate aftermath and may have changed in the months afterwards.

It will not be until later this year the documents are made available in the greater domain so perhaps it would be wise people hold their council some what before shouting from the rafters one particular cog in the disaster is wholly to blame a

 

Whilst I don't think drink or the ticketing system played a part -- The one question I ask re. the Hillsborough disaster is who was pushing the fans forward causing grievous harm to some of fans in front of them. If it was other fans then they are culpable.

 

I totally agree with Jay on this.

I know you do not care much for me sir, but on this I am in agreement.That post was over the top to say the least.

 

When you entered Leppings Lane you went down a tunnel. At the bottom was another tunnel which led to the two central pens. Unsignposted and out of sight, and unbeknown to the fans, there were a further two tunnels to the left and right to the outer pens. Fans entering thought the only entrance was in front. The tunnel had a (not sure if it was 1:12 or 1:18) gradient which created a natural flow. People were trying to enter the ground through this tunnel completely unaware of what was happening in the pens. This was then excacebated when the gates were opened by the police. The Taylor Report squarely laid the blame with the stadium design and the police failure to close off the access tunnel. The people entering the ground at the back were completely unaware of the crush at the front.

 

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/index.shtm

Read this numpty

 

Like most disasters it was a number of factors which caused the disaster:

1. Fencing around the ground, brought in because of a hooligan eliment or because football fans were treated like animals - you decide. Meant that people could not escape from the front of the stand.
2. A well known tactic employed by Liverpool fans without tickets was to "rush" turnstiles, causing such a dangerous crush outside of football grounds and forcing the authorities to open gates to let fans in.
3. Police panicked and let fans in without thought of how they would be distributed on the lepping lane end, so they all got funnelled down the middle gangway, causing the crush.
4. Police refused to understand the seriousness of the situation - Liverpool fans were pleading for help to open the gates on the fencing and pull people out, police reaction was reported as being amused to indifferent to people dying infront of them.
5. The emergency response was wholly inadequate - only a moron clung to the notion that "everyone was dead by 3.20pm" or whatever line of bullsh*t the initial report stated, thus exonerating the police, and other services from the truth which was plenty of people died long after they had been pulled from the crowd.


Did I get any of that wrong?

 

the police bolloxed it up big time then tried to cover up which is a criminal offence.
i don't know if theyre were drunken fans or not but the criminal act of opening those gates endangering innocent fans in the ground should be (but won't) harshly punished.
please don't try to tell me that a body as experienced as the police couldn't handle a few thousand fans trying to get into a football match.
the top and bottom of it is the police were both arrogant and complacent treating fans at that time as mere scum whether they were hostile or not.
yes police incompetence was to blame as the very fact of them being there was for safety of fans and residents.
that was the job of the people in charge that day and they failed and should suffer the consequences no excuses.
i think the thread starter is bitterand biased and either ill informed or a bigot.