Hold his hand.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62389726

Be There, let him go.

Done it with mi Dad & Mam in law. It's OK to do it. XXX

 

Mentally its a way different thing when its your child , believe me

 

Which is why medical staff when unanimous and presented with clear cut evidence that the situation is hopeless can make objective decisions. Again, lawyers feeding the desperation to the parents are doing no favours. they have now gone to the ECHR when the latest tests show areas of the brain are no atrophied and the organs are now shutting down. There is now talk of the mother having him flown to a country that will treat him if the UK are not prepared to (as if the NHS has abandoned him). How much will all that cost and how better could the money - tens of thousands of pounds - be spent? Plenty on here complaining about lack of NHS funding. I do not blame the parents but enough is enough.

 

A very very heart breaking situation and I can't begin to imagine how the parents of the lad are feeling, the lads brain is rotting away and his brain stem is dead, I agree with the OP in that his parents are listening to lawyers and not proffesional doctors who have is best interests at heart, ( I can also understand the nightmare they must be in) I do feel sorry also for the doctors who have been classed as executioners in this.

 

You are so desperate to see this boy put in the ground, what is it to you? You started the other thread too. For someone who proclaims to not want to engage in political dialogue, you sure talk a lot of politics. Talking of which, and talking of this country wasting money (significantly more than a few grand on 'the mother' flying the boy abroad), our new Scumbag-in-Waiting, the furlough King's wife's company (his wife who, like you, doesn't pay tax in this country), Infosys's earnings from its UK public sector projects contributed to global Infosys revenues of £8.7bn last year, which earned profits of £1.8bn. It is estimated Ms Murty earns more than £11m in dividends from her stake. So the Tories are giving out contracts to their mates, husbands and wives left, right and centre. And it's in the billions. But let's turn a blind eye and focus on the dying boy.

As for the boy, it is a terribly tragic situation that until someone is in that situation surely cannot begin to fathom how it feels at the time. Personally I think it probably best if the family don't suffer any more, but maybe show a bit of empathy and compassion eh? Particularly when some on here have already lost loved ones in a similar way. You can quote science all you want, and get angry at the mother's and father's reaction, but behind their feelings is a whole lot of anguish in an impossible situation and a whole lot of love. I don't think you're this terrible person Tekky, but i don't get your obesession with this one, especially given how sad it all is.

 

I'm not saying they were right to go to lawyers I'm saying I was referring to you saying be there let him go and you had done it with your Dad and Mother in Law.
I was saying its its a way different level, I did it with my dad and that hurt but its like the natural order of things and you have always known it would happen some day.
When your son is laid there, someone you have brought up who has trusted you most of their life to look after them and make the right decisions, it does things to you you can't imagine, in fact I'm giving up with this thread now because my stomachs turning and I'm filling up just bringing it up that awful morning again!

 

I would like your post NYR but like is probably not the right word. Heartfelt sympathy to you for having to deal with such a heartbreaking situation, I lost my dad when the life support system was switched off when I was a young man and thought there was no pain like it, but having kids and now grandkids I cannot envisage what it must be like to lose a child in those circumstances. Like you I think Tekky isn't talking with malice but is treating this situation from a legal point of view and not that of a parent.

 

You feel for the parents , they’ve done their best and come to the end of the road by the sounds of it . There’s another side to situations like this , I heard on an earlier news bulletin that his organs were deteriorating, somewhere there’s a child about to die because they need a transplant , heart kidney lungs . However this turns out it’s a tragedy but having a relative who was a few days away from death at 11yrs who got a heart transplant at the last minute and now due to the selflessness in a another parents tragedy theres a young women enjoying life , graduating from University watched by proud parents . I hope something good can come out of the families grief

 

Nonsense. Why am I desperate to see this boy in the ground? "What is it to you" you say. Well I could say that back at you. In the cold light of day not having any emotional ties I can make a logical conclusion from a safe distance. At no point have I criticised the parents for clinging to any faint vestiges of hope. Who is to say in a similar situation any of us would not do the same?
As for you making political point scoring you are pathetic. FYI arguing wasting money on an obvious lost cause is not political. Even if the NHS was well funded wastage is still wastage.
Nevertheless, the damage of this case extends beyond financial . A leading paediatrician has highlighted that when media and social media become involved everyone thinks they are medical ethics experts. Many hospital staff in high profile cases like this are frightened to oppose parents even if it contradicts the best interest of the patient as they suffer abuse and even threats against themselves and families on the internet.
As for accusing me of lack of compassion I have said many times how tragic it is but faux grief for people you have never met should never override making logical conclusions based on available evidence otherwise it is just virtue signalling.
This is a lost cause. The sooner the parents accept that the better for everyone and they can seek closure. The saddest thing for me is that I suspect the mother will always blame the NHS and find it even difficult to to move on than the awful situation of the death of a child. And yes I do think appealing to the Supreme Court only three days after the Supreme Court stated they would not hear the case and then going to the ECHR is down to the lawyers who clearly do not have the child's best interests at heart.

 

Stop blaming the lawyers.

 

Yes, it’s not well known but this is the only way a transplant donor can happen.

 

The child is not their client, the parents are. Lawyers offer advice but ultimately are bound to act on their clients' instructions. It's a fundamental principle of our legal system and protects access to justice by preventing solicitors and barristers from turning down losing cases.

 

So who is to blame then ? I repeat. Appealing to the supreme court 3 days after they publicly stated they would not hear the case.. then going to the ECHR hours after drs stated his organs are failing and test show his brain is in parts atrophied. They, unlike the doctors do not have his best interests at heart. They CAN withdraw given the specific circumstances. At the very least they should spend time advising the parents. Clearly the rush to prepare and present the case with the ECHR within a few hours suggest they did not. Why are you so hung up on defending lawyers.,,,?

 

Because I am one, and you're dead set on hammering the profession despite not understanding it.

See my previous post above for further detail.

 

Why does anyone have to be to blame? Why can't it just be a difficult situation/ ethical dilemma?

And if @mansfield_red was talking to you about keyboards or living as an ex-pat in Italy despite him having no first hand knowledge of it, wouldn't you find that a bit insulting/ disrespectful? I know I would.

 

Surely then the system is flawed in that the overriding Requirements in theses situations should be about what is best for the child and not what the parents want? If social services / courts have the legal right to remove a Child from a situation where he cannot be adequately or safely provided for then why do the courts not have the right to remove or restrict parental responsibility in situations where they cannot make rational decisions on the interest of the child?
As you are a legal professional I would very interested to know how you would handled these parents who have become ( albeit understandably) irrational in their decision making ) I cannot help but think you have focussed on the legal processes
in your posts rather than considering what a logical and compassionate solution in the best interests would be. Apologies if that is not the case.

 

For the first half of your post that's an issue to be solved by legislation if it needs to be solved.

I have focussed on the legal process because ultimately that's what binds the lawyers. They are bound to act on their clients' instructions, so to lay the blame at their door is misguided. If it were me I would try to explain the evidence and the arguments as I see them, advise on the prospects of success and likely costs and ask them (as hard as it may be) to try and take a step back and look at the matter as objectively and dispassionately as they can.

And then I would do what they tell me to do.

 

Don't come at me with political pointscoring tekky, you clearly love a political debate despite your protestations to the contrary. As for not blaming the parents, you called them selfish in the other thread and irrational in this one, they are clearly in the sight of your gun.

I agree with Titus, there doesn't always have to be someone to blame, this is why we have so many problems in the world today, because people are always set up in opposition.

 

Stop making stuff up!! At no point have I called them 'selfish and irrational' ( "in the sights of your gun"!!) Really? Factually correct, but fully understandable and in no way as per my sentence in post 10# below am I insensitive to their stance . I AM critical of media and social media, and certain 'so called' Christian organisations sticking their noses in and whipping up a frenzy implying Hospital medics don't care, and a legal system that seems inadequate in these circumstances. I admit, to unfairly targeting individual legal practitioners rather than the constraints under which they operate.

post 3# " I do not blame the parents but enough is enough."
Post 10# " At no point have I criticised the parents for clinging to any faint vestiges of hope. Who is to say in a similar situation any of us would not do the same?"

Again, you call this a political argument but where does politics come in to it . The situation would be the same regardless of which party s in power. Similarly No amount of funding or funding cuts would make any difference in this instance so blaming any Govt is wrong.