I Am a Trans Barnsley Fan

The best thing to do when you don't understand something is firstly to shut up & secondly listen & learn.

I've applied this rule to the OP & can say this post has probably been one of the more educational posts I have read.

Brilliant.

 

Seconded.

 

Well said, JP.

 

Quite possibly the best and bravest post ever on this board.

 

I've often thought that if we just did away with gender specific toilets completely and had one big toilet area with individual cubicles in it with full floor to ceiling walls and doors (as opposed to the current ones which you can look over or under) with CCTV in the communal area the. It would solve the gender issue completely as it wouldn't matter what you are or identify as. But then I wonder would women feel safe? As a woman yourself how would you feel about it? There would be CCTV in the communal handwashing area which would cover the cubicle doors and a panic alarm button inside each cubicle. Would that make you feel safe or not?

 

Personally I haven't got a huge problem with toilets, however they are arranged or indeed changing areas. But that doesn't mean others don't. I don't think I'd feel very comfortable or safe sharing a prison cell for eg.though.

 

Agreed. Although I'm also a question asker and have been learning a lot about the subject over recent months after becoming friends with a couple of transgender people on tiktok, one mtf one from. Some of the things I've learned have really opened my eyes like how they take testosterone or estrogen and what affect that has on their body, what happens if they stop etc.

Both of them transitioned at around the time of puberty and one question I see people ask them so often is to the effect of 'im in the wrong body but feel I'm too old to transition now. Am I?' their answer is always the same. Nope! They know people who did it at 11 and people who did it at 70 and apart from the difference in actual physical appearance of starting it earlier than later there is no difference mentally in doing it. If you're in the wrong body at 50 years old and you transition to correct it it wil make you just as happy and essentially 'cured' as if you're in the wrong body at 11 and transition.

Bit of a random reply I know but yeah I love asking questions (respectfully) to learn things and find if I don't know then asking really helps but that must always come after listening and learning first

 

I once had a holiday in Weymouth and being in a pub or night club, can’t remember as I was drunk but I do remember entering the toilets which were unisex.
Built in a huge semi circle, all cubicles with a big fountain in the middle for washing your hands.
Really strange if I’m honest and more than confusing when drunk. Never seen it again. But an experience.

 

Fair enough. I was just curious as to your thoughts. I didn't think about prison cells and you're right, if I was transgender I don't think I'd feel comfortable in either cell actually

 

Without the panic alarm bit this is exactly what we have at school, and indeed at most secondary schools. I’ve experienced it plenty in clubs but they tend to be much dirtier than specific women’s toilets but that may be that the places themselves weren’t well kept.

 

I like this forum ... full of decent human beings, glad to be associated with it.
Good luck Gravy, I think you can probably count this place as a safe space (and rightly so). A long & difficult journey ahead, but not without support

 

Brilliantly written Gravy. Brave and honest, must have been hard to write, but hopefully a bit better now it’s off your chest. Good luck with your friends and family. In my experience people tend to be more understanding than you expect, but my journey is not the same as yours, so understand the trepidation. Lovely to see the support from the board.

 

I can't really speak for gender neutral toilets but in my experience of seperate male and female ones I'd say there's two main reasons why the female ones are cleaner. The first one is a bit sexist but men and boys tend to get dirtier. At school there was always muddy hands being washed in the sinks at the toilets, that didn't tend to be the case with the girls. At work in both my main jobs I've had the men tend to do more manual or dirty work, grease and grime being washed off hands which again leads to more dirt on the soap dispenser, around the taps, generally anywhere that's touched really.

The second reason is that the female toilets simply tend to get cleaned better or treated better by the cleaners. At school I remember the mirrors being smashed in both the boys and girls toilets, the girls had theirs replaced straight away, the boys took a few months. At my previous job the cleaners (who were all women) used coconut 'flavour' hand soap in the ladies and plain one in the men's, they had soft toilet roll, the men had the stuff you darent apply too much pressure with if you know what I mean.
At my current job the ladies have soft close toilet seats and artificial flowers on the windowsill, the cleaner (again a woman) will spend a good 10 minutes in there cleaning each day. The men's she simply walks in, checks for any obvious issues and leaves.

So I think it's a bit of both, the men generally get dirtier making the toilets dirtier, they aren't cleaned as well (possibly because the cleaner feels what's the point when they get dirty again?) and the men then don't take as much care as they're already dirty. A vicious circle.

I love a nice clean toilet


Ps, just posted this and then realised how long it was. Sorry

 

Brave post! Difficult to know what to say but good luck with whatever it is that makes you feel happy. We aren't here for very long and you need to do what ever it is that makes you feel good. Friend of my sister has a child going through the same thing - they feel better that the situation is out in the open and were almost surprised at the backing and the support she received. There are some who will question what you are doing but vast majority will be 100% behind you - this board has had some stick on fan's sites but they I've always found them to be a really supportive bunch despite the odd falling out of certain topics.

 

I was referring more to pee everywhere and the smell because of that (probably because drunk men find it even harder to aim than usual) but the points you make are valid more generally.

 

I think that's mainly a drunk man issue for exactly the reason you say. That and some men just have absolutely awful aim at the best of times and others are simply selfish ***** who don't care

 

Or.

 

That's pretty common in Europe. It's just a complete nightmare in bars when you have to queue for ages for a cubicle when you only need a pee. Some bars in Russia get around it by having a unisex cubicle arrangement as you mentioned, plus a separate area for urinals. A lot of clubs and bars in the UK don't like full length doors on cubicles as they make drug consumption so easy.

 

Well done Gravy for taking the plunge and speaking out. It will do you the world of good and if any friends or family don't understand, its they who have the problem. There are less bigots about these days and most people will understand your feelings. One of my extended family came out 2 years ago and he says it was the best decision of his life. He'd held it back and dated girls just to conform to what was expected. We now know he'd contemplated suicide which is a dreadful thought. He was scared that his family and friends would disown him and was astounded when everyone ( bar one old former schoolmate) thought no different of him and indeed offered their ear if he needed it. He's now living with his boyfriend and enjoying life so opening your heart is just the start of feeling much better within yourself. All the best for the future Gravy.