I don't blame Holgate

Correct. By not affording your club this power you are basically screwing them up.

 

Nonsense. IMO obviously. You're thinking it through emotively, like a fan would, these are professionals, it's a career.

He's contracted to us for another year, we have the option of making him see out his contract. That's all there is.

And if the million pound is going to be a genuine offer don't you think that's a fair price regardless of his contractual situation? If he had 3yrs left we'd not get much more, I don't think anyone would pay it for him.

 

You keep answering your own question about loyalty. Why would any business keep somebody who is no good out of loyalty?
I suppose out of loyalty the club could have given him a 5 year contract early doors then he could have been kept on peanuts and have to stay at the club. By giving shorter contracts and the player performs well there is then room to negotiate improvements.

 

So clubs should have their cake and eat it?

Why would a player sign a contract that's no good out of loyalty?

Simple really.

 

Got to go now ponty, av got to put tea on.

 

Not at all. There are two different sets of negotiations that will take place. The clubs will decide on the transfer fee, but the buying club and the player will negotiate the player's terms. The two are not mutually exclusive. If the buying club all of a sudden has to pay a higher fee, because the player decides to sign a longer contract at his existing club they will either back out or pay less in signing on fees and wages. The player could then find himself stuck at a club he doesn't want to be at and may miss out on a potentially life changing move, or the move becomes less lucrative than first mooted.

And for every day he remains at his current club the player is running the risk of getting an injury that puts a stop to his career. Now if we were talking someone on a contract of £20k per week moving to a club who will pay him £40k per week, it perhaps isn't as relevant, because £20k per week for a few years is enough for the player never to have to work again anyway. The additional £20k per week is superfluous really. But if we're talking about moving from a wage that a club like ours can afford to a Premiership wage the difference is astronomical. No team in League One or below will ever be able to retain a young player who has interest from a Premiership club any more.

John Stones has gone from a contract at BFC, where he was probably earning something like £80-100k per year, to a contract where he now makes £1.5m per year. And yet there were people saying he'd have been better off staying at Oakwell for another year or two because he will always be good enough to get a big contract. Well tell that to David Watson or Luke Potter.

Mason Holgate was given a two year contract from the club. No more, because we wanted to be able to get shut of him, like we have done with quite a few young players this summer, if he didn't shape up. Well, he did shape up and now has a chance to take his career and earnings up several levels. What does he owe us?If he loses his form this season we'd probably get shut of him next summer. It's the gamble we have to take these days and it sometimes backfires, so we should just try to maximise what we can get for him now. Seriously, I can't imagine that many players have ever done what John Stones did, in signing a new contract. Actually, I can't imagine that any have done what he did.

Unless we come into a load of money or suddenly start shooting up through the divisions we are never going to be able to keep hold of talented young players again and the best we can hope for are decent players with flaws to put the big teams off! Or to do what we seem to be doing, in buying young hungry decent players and start the conveyor belt. The more times we strike lucky, the more we can pay for young prospects, so, potentially, the better the chance of making more money on our players. Sadly, not as easy as that though, because there are 48 clubs in the bottom two divisions, mostly trying to do the same!

 

I don't really mind either way - now it looks like he's on his way out I'd prefer to get it done and dusted, though, so that we can think about how to spend whatever money we get for him.

 

You say "There is nothing to stop Holgate signing the contract today and being off to villa next week." but also "If he had signed the contract it would give the club more bargaining power to attract a better fee."

Those statements are contradictory. What if he signed a contract and villa didn't want to pay the extra that we could bargain, and his career goes nowhere?

 

Too right. I bet that this time last year Oates, Nana and Holgate would have all happily signed 4 year deals, but we didn't offer them. 12 months down the line we've slung two on the scrap heap and expect the third to sign a contract out of loyalty, just so we may be able to get more money for him. I say 'may' be able to get more money for him, because the only test case we have is John Stones and we all know how well we managed to squeeze millions out of Everton. Just imagine how low the fee could have been if Stones hadn't signed the new contract with us...

 

A two year contract isn't out of the ordinary at our level, its more about economics and I really don't think having a contract would put off potential suitors especially if they believe he has the quality. The point about development isn't really a frame of reference; he's good enough for league one so if we were still in it then why wouldn't we offer him another contract? If he does develop further, which it seems is expected then another club will come in and buy him.

Signing a new contract didn't harm John Stones and despite us wasting that negotiation power it was still available to us.

If he's good enough having a contract would not deter Villa.

 

We can't keep comparing every situation to john stones. He was a once in a blue moon player for bfc.

As a club we need to start having a bit of forethought though. Get proper contracts offered at the right time. On the wages Holgate is on I don't think economics would have stood in the way of a 3/4/5 year contract. It could have pay rises built into it depending on development to keep the player happy.

 

Exactly he's being linked with a move away for a million. If we had him under a longer contract we'd still be very lucky to see two million for him. Difference being though if a premiership with their mega TV money riches really want him they aren't going to be put off by having to pay another 500k-750k.