I would like to apologise to the elderly lady sat next to me

Respect, manners and decency. All things that seemingly have passed you by.

 

Go ahead then - nobody's stopping you.

 

No, there's not. I change the way I speak and the words I use depending on the situation. In the presence of some people I swear a lot, with others not at all. At the match I shout a lot, but swear rarely as there are a couple of kids near us.

My point wasn't that you should carry on swearing regardless, it's that fundamentally there is nothing wrong with swearing and it certainly doesn't indicate a lack of intelligence or a limited vocabulary like some people claim.

 

I got asked to mind my language in my local by some of the older end....................they were sat watching mrs browns boys

 

Completely agree with every word of that Jay. My favourite tv show is The Thick of It. The swearing in that is probably the most joyful use of the English language I've ever heard. But I wouldn't stick it on at a family party. And if I did show it someone and they said they didn't like it I wouldn't tell them to "**** off".

 

What makes me laugh about this thread is that we find hemmsy demonstrating that he is capable of recognising a situation where it is polite and good manners to modify his behaviour, whereas we seem to have several who are incapable of doing that because it's a macho thing to do and it's a free country where they are entitled to be selfish and obnoxious.

Presumably they stick to their ethics and do the same at home? I bet Sunday dinner is great in their houses. "Pass me that kebab, Kanye you little t**t"

 

I would like to see the battle axe's son take her seat next home game and and discuss the issue.
I don't understand the posters who think his behaviour is OK.

 

Guess it must be a generational thing Jay. You strike me as being one of the more sensible posters on here so I tend to value your opinions more than most. I was brought up in a mining community where the use of certain types of language was readily accepted but was also confined to specific situations. Swearing in front of women and kids, particularly in public, was generally frowned upon. Of course you always had the odd exception but, to me, it was part of a value system that showed respect for others. Once such values are imbued in people they take a lot of shifting and that's one of the reasons why I find it so uncomfortable walking around Barnsley town centre and hearing women, kids and men using 'pit language' freely and seemingly oblivious to the people around them. Amazing how things have changed in a relatively short time, but if Steven Fry says its OK who am I to argue!?

 

It's only bad language. I'm more concerned how poor Doyle Security are at searching away fans as for the second game in a row smoke canisters have been let off.

 

Hi mate, I wasn't saying that swearing is OK in all situations, just that it isn't fundamentally wrong and doesn't demonstrate a lack of intelligence or a limited vocabulary. I do swear in certain situations, a lot of situations actually, but not in front of people who are uncomfortable with it. I usually gauge it right, use such language when it's appropriate, temper it when it isn't, but I have got it wrong in the past and been asked to 'mind your language' to which I've apologised and done just that. Or, in certain cases, I've argued my case and suggested swearing was entirely appropriate.

Faced with the above situation, I would have apologised and stopped using such language. I've no intention of offending people from the older generation if it really does so, even if I don't agree with them. Actually, I wouldn't have been swearing in the first place as I sit near a couple of kids at the football, so limit my swearing to an absolute minimum. Sometimes a swear word pops out, but rarely. Swearing in front of kids is not something I do.

The only generational difference that separates us, is that I do swear in front of women. Not all women as a matter of course, if they don't like it or the situation does not call for it I don't, but I believe swearing can enrich language, so when I'm with friends, male and female, I don't hold back if I know they are all comfortable with it. I can tell funnier stories with swearing in than without. Not due to a limited vocabulary, although I don't claim mine to be the widest, but because sometimes a swear word is exactly the right word to use.

I refer to the Steven Fry video a lot, not because it claims that swearing is appropriate in all situations, it doesn't, but to demonstrate that swearing does not indicate a lack of intelligence, education or vocabulary which is often suggested and in my opinion completely wrong.

 

As it happens I also swear, and sometimes in front of women if the occasion appears appropriate. And I'm reasonably well-educated. I guess what I'm really concerned about is the way in which boorish behaviour is not only tolerated but is becoming the norm. I'm in my mid-fifties by the way so I'm hardly ancient, but if one of my two adult sons was to behave in the way boasted about by the OP I would be mortified.

 

Agree with all of that, I think what is acceptable depends on the specific situation.

I've got to admit that I do swear a fair bit at the match. Two memorable examples from yesterday being 'f*cking brainless' to Ramage when he needlessly headed the ball out of play when we needed to get the ball back and 'f*cking liability' to Kennedy, on numerous occasions. The caveat being that it's mostly mumbled under my breath or probably only audible to my old man and friends sitting in my vicinity, who I know are not offended by a bit of bad language.

I think it also depends on the person using the language. For example, an overly aggressive person constantly swearing wouldn't offend me but may make me feel uncomfortable in certain company. However, as Jay says someone frequently swearing as part of a joke or an amusing story definitely wouldn't bother me.

 

I've seen the most intelligent and articulate people completely lacking in self awareness. The middle/public school classes are terrible for it, I know - I live around them and their pompous verbosity.

Effing and blinding at football isn't that much different. They used to say football matches were the place to let off steam, do your swearing and behave like you wouldn't elsewhere, then leave it all at the game. But football has become more gentrified and that kind of behaviour is not acceptable to some paying customers. A noisy f-word slipped out of me yesterday in the upper West Stand of all places, I can feel myself going red with shame, even now. Oh God, they probably heard it on the commentary....

I think sweary bravado has generally gotten worse, same way as everybody talks louder, practically shouting and that's become the norm. They want to be heard and noticed. It's an animal instinct again, most people aren't aware they are doing it. Kids on buses are the worst and the language that comes from young girls shocks even me. Everybody craves attention in some form and swearing is just one way of getting it for some.

I'm not about to tell anyone how to conduct themselves, if they don't know already, then they are not going to listen to me. Probably tell me to eff right off and maybe rightly so. Truth is, if you swear excessively you look and sound like a pillock and if they were aware of that, they wouldn't do it. And while it's not easy to respect everyone's personal space crammed together at a football match, you have to make an effort. Likewise ESL's 'old biddy' should and probably is, prepared to suffer the odd obscenity in that environment. And with the ****ing ****s they send us to referee, that's always going to happen.