If the U.S. Election fiasco has highlighted anything....

Agreed, the current Mrs. DR is fluent in EU contract law, not that it will matter next year unless we get the easiest trade deal in the world!

 

You can add to that postal vote fraud ( although I haven't an answer to the problem)....or the system as in Hs2 whereby the Chair of Hs2 lies to the minister ( Grayling) about the cost, and Grayling repeats the lie to Parliament.

 

He resigned because it's a conflict of interest for an administration that stands to benefit from a particular election outcome to take charge of an investigation into it. That's why the validity of election results is the responsibility of individual states and their appointed AGs, backed up by their court system.

I'm going to ignore the rest of the word sandwich other than to say how amusing it is that if there is a conspiracy that you honestly believe you have critical information noone else here has yet are unwilling to present even a shred of credible evidence.

Having said all that, Barr literally never takes on fights and loses so I fear Trump's about to cheat his way to 4 more years out of prison.

 

Are you sure Grayling was lied to?

I ask because I was once told by (redacted) that having shown Grayling some data, he had to repeat several times ‘You can say that the data means ... but that’s not what it says and I’m not telling you it does’

And for the record; that’s the only time I’ve ever been told about a politician wanting to create a lie from facts given. I can speculate it’s happened other times, but that name is in the only story I know of. Make of that what you will.

 

The EU has been stopping Tory governments from degrading workers rights for decades, going right back to Thatcher.

 

You forgot to mention the Illuminati's role in all of this, the fact that global warming is a hoax dreamed up by Electrolux, Whirlpool and Bosch to make us all buy a new fridge, or that the earth is flat, and the only reason why we think it's spherical is because of a NASA conspiracy, in cahoots with all of the world's airline pilots.

 

Would the "lamestream media" include Fox News which yesterday cut off the White House press Secretary for quoting this exact same bilge because they said it had no substance in fact?
I'd suggest you self quarantine your brain for 14 days then get it tested.

 

Was agreeing with you up to this bit. Germany has PR & consensus seems to be reached fairly well, also in France. Spain & Italy are less stable due to regional disputes that go back to the second world war. The two party system in the USA & the UK is the thing that holds us back. PR allows for new parties to be formed & have a say. Green issues & other things are more likely addressed as they have representation. The old theory of FPTP giving "strong government" no longer applies. If we had PR it is likely both the Tory Party & the Labour Party would split, with two centre right / left groups & two more polarised ones. It is only the whips that are currently keeping the Tories together now, as they see the Brexit train crash round the corner.

 

Assuming you were referring to post 13 -mykie133 I agree ....Wow!! Were not some state overseen by Republicans overseeing the vote system who have stated no fraud was evidenced. Why would they lie?? As for the Pilger resignation ...err... that is in protest against his 'corrupt ' "boss" trying to bend the Law in favour of his buddy Trump and the GOP.

Disagree that totally rural votes count for more (since I am unclear what you mean by 'totally rural'). Surely all states have at least one or two Major cities. A couple of the Western states declared Biden as the major cities population in effect 'overruled' the widespread rural counties' votes. Surely a vote is a vote is a vote regardless of whether the voters are spread out or massed together in a city. One man one vote and all that.
There is a contradiction in that the 'spread out geographically' votes may more represent the political needs of say a rural economy in a State but the sheer numbers in a couple of cities that vote for the business interests override that. by the winner takes all system. A more devolved system not state wide could solve that but that has its own problems in such a huge country of -(dis)United States.

Re "As for the state of our democracy - I’ll be fair and say it wasn’t your main point; but you couldn’t be more wrong."

To which part in your opinion, are you referring ..(like I said they are only my opinions)? Dodgy corrupt wheeling and dealing is IMO more exposed since the advent of Social media, but the problem is the guilty ones don't seem to give a t*ss anyway and carry on regardless. there are far too many cases of politicians and their advisors operating (and considering themselves) above the law on all sides of the political divide.

 

Hah! hah! You do know we are talking about politicians and their advisers here?

 

To be fair..
1 I thought many of the rights of workers in the UK exceed the minimum requirements laid down by the EU
2 My understanding is that some of the EU legislation was either supported, and or introduced by UK Govts (be it Labour or Conservative)
3 Zero contract hours and the erosion of workers rights is not a phenomenon unique to the UK and exists equally in the EU.


i am NOT defending the Govt but do not see that your post (yet another pro EU and anti Govt comment) has anything to do with the discussion about the US / UK politics and electoral system that this thread is about.

 

To be fair..

I was only responding to a post which mentioned the EU keeping UK governments on the straight and narrow. Oh and various Tory governments have tried to backtrack on workers rights and been stopped by the EU.

 

Despite your acceptance that Trump and his cronies are worse than all others, You do appear to have fallen for the lie that got him into power, that all politicians and their advisers are ‘just as bad as each other’.

Whilst I appreciate that plenty of them are truly awful, to dismiss them all allows the worst of them to flourish.

If I didn’t believe that a randomly picked group of MPs from any party would be better than our current cabal of a cabinet, I’d give up on the human race completely.

Of all the MPs and ministers I’ve met I’d say they’re no worse than the public at large.

 

As briefly as I can, low population states get more college votes per capita than more populous states.

And the state of the U.K. this year with PPE contracts etc bears no resemblance to the country I’ve spent my whole adult life in. I’m not suggesting we have always been squeaky clean, but the current situation is far more corrupt than anything you’d have seen in the U.K. prior.

 

Re your first sentence - I stand corrected having believed (or been led to believe) that the number of college votes for each state was proportionate to the population of each state. Having scuttled off to investigate further I quickly discovered that, as you say, it is not the case having found this (see below)... albeit it dates back to 2004 and not sure if there have been many, if any, reforms.. It makes the whole system even more bizarre and open to accusations of inequity.

As regards the second part of your post. I have no idea how old you are but, in any vcase I agree over the past 3 or 4 years the corruption exposed has been way beyond anything I have seen of in my 66 years on this planet. How much of that is down to whistleblowers, social media exposure as opposed to actual increase in corruption I do not know. Either way it is a pretty grim state of affairs.

There is also a completely different attitude from the Public regarding those in power be they high ranking civil servants, or politicians. The deference and 'they must know best because of where/who they are' has been swept away and respect now has to be earned otherwise questions are asked. That was unthinkable before the Wars and in the 50s and early 60s You are probably too young to remember the Suez crisis (me too as I was only 2 when its started) although, as I got older, I was more aware of it due to it being 'recent history' and the fiasco was a topic of conversation for years afterwards. That said, it was more down to incompetence, arrogance and stubborness (with an element of racism thrown into the mix I daresay) of Govt ministers and PM Eden who were responsible and still clinging to the concepts of Empire/colonial rule rather than corruption. Nevertheless the humiliation for the UK Govt was considerable and depply damaging to the International reputation of the United Kingdom.

State Population vs. Electoral Vote

"The apportionment of electoral votes is based on the congressional representation for each state, meaning that each congressional seat equals an electoral vote. Since the House of Representatives is set at 435 seats and the Senate at 100, changes in electoral votes with every 10-year census are often very minute. Therefore, the number of people per electoral vote in one state is very different than the number of people per electoral vote in another. Below is a list of states along with their populations, number of electoral votes, and a percentage that demonstrates the relative value of a vote cast in that state compared to the national average (For example on average a state is awarded one electoral vote for every 545,828 people. However, Wyoming has three electoral votes and only 506,529 citizens. As a result each of Wyoming's three votes corresponds to only 168,843 people. These people have 3.23 times as much clout in the Electoral College as an average American or 323% as listed in the chart).
States 2004 Population 2004 Electoral Votes % vs. National Average
Alabama 4,530,182 9 108%
Alaska 655,435 3 250%
Arizona 5,743,834 10 95%
Arkansas 2,752,629 6 119%
California 35,893,799 55 84%
Colorado 4,601,403 9 107%
Connecticut 3,503,604 7 109%
Delaware 830,364 3 197%
Dist. of Columbia 553,523 3 296%
Florida 17,397,161 27 85%
Georgia 8,829,383 15 93%
Hawaii 1,262,840 4 173%
Idaho 1,393,262 4 157%
Illinois 12,713,634 21 90%
Indiana 6,237,569 11 96%
Iowa 2,954,451 7 129%
Kansas 2,735,502 6 120%
Kentucky 4,145,922 8 105%
Louisiana 4,515,770 9 109%
Maine 1,317,253 4 166%
Maryland 5,558,058 10 98%
Massachusetts 6,416,505 12 102%
Michigan 10,112,620 17 92%
Minnesota 5,100,958 10 107%
Mississippi 2,902,966 6 113%
Missouri 5,754,618 11 104%
Montana 926,865 3 177%
Nebraska 1,747,214 5 156%
Nevada 2,334,771 5 117%
New Hampshire 1,299,500 4 168%
New Jersey 8,698,879 15 94%
New Mexico 1,903,289 5 143%
New York 19,227,088 31 88%
North Carolina 8,541,221 15 96%
North Dakota 634,366 3 258%
Ohio 11,459,011 20 95%
Oklahoma 3,523,553 7 108%
Oregon 3,594,586 7 106%
Pennsylvania 12,406,292 21 92%
Rhode Island 1,080,632 4 202%
South Carolina 4,198,068 8 104%
South Dakota 770,883 3 212%
Tennessee 5,900,962 11 102%
Texas 22,490,022 34 83%
Utah 2,389,039 5 114%
Vermont 621,394 3 264%
Virginia 7,459,827 13 95%
Washington 6,203,788 11 97%
West Virginia 1,815,354 5 150%
Wisconsin 5,509,026 10 99%
Wyoming 506,529 3 323%
United States 293,655,404 538 100%

 

I perhaps should have said that Grayling repeated the lie that Hs2 Chair Sir David Higgins was peddling that Hs2 was on time and on budget at 35 billion.

 

ACA (Obama care) survives wow the orange one will be apoplectic!
Basically after 4 years of claiming to have the 'best' deal no adequate replacement was found. What Donald lied?!
So the court have no alternative who'd have thought.

Its almost like no deal is better than a better a bad deal rhetoric. Its be proven this bad deal (staying in the EU or the rubbish withdrawal agreement) are better than a Tory apocalypse.

Wake up people two idiots with bad barbers have pulled your pants down.

 

By the way ive just ordered a new winter tshirt, 4 seasons landscaping Philadelphia, best 19 quid + shipping I've spent.

 

Honestly, everything about that press conference was unbelievable. The fact that they managed to time it to be exactly when the race was called for Biden was the icing on the cake. Straight out of Curb Your Enthusiasm!