Israel

I think they made the right decision.

They clearly thought about it & for me gave the right message. Our right wing government have no right to get involved, as far as I see it. They are all for flag waving to keep the Express & Mail readers happy though & distract people from their inept & scandalous 13 years in rule.

 

I was at Wembley and there was a minutes silence for both countries deaths, some started shouting ( don't know who but plenty) so loads in the ground started booing. Would it hurt to be respectful for one minute for BOTH countries dead?

 

I think it is worth considering what has gone on in the party though in the not too distant past with the likes of Rachel Riley going after Corbyn as being antisemitic etc. It is unsurprising he daren't criticise them given that, he should be able to but he will get hammered if he did.

 

Perfectly sums up my feelings about this.

 

Yes, I see that but he's a leader and should lead. He's also contradicting himself with his stance. He should clearly state that Israeli attacks on Gaza are unacceptable as 'self defence'. He should. He might also, actually, strike a chord with mainstream opinion. His sitting on the fence/compliance really upsets me tbh. I am seriously considering not voting Labour now even though I want the Tories out and even though I will get the same 'youre letting the Tories in' comments but ffs where does one make a stand? He needs to come out and give some support for the Palestinian position.

 

They attempted the same thing at the NFL game at White Hart Lane on Sunday. Pre-announcement was very neutral in that it was to remember all those caught up in the conflict. A few seconds in they quickly abandoned it due to a series of people shouting "Free Palestine"

 

I disagree with him massively, but on this he's definitely playing the hand as best he can. Starmer can't afford to step out of line one inch, otherwise he'll immediately be painted as an antisemite. The groundwork has already been laid.

 

I can see his hand. Its not good. Its clear. He has his sights on number 10 and that's it. Its appalling though. We have a 'leader' of the opposition who wont condemn clear UN -stated breaches of international law. Think about it. A Labour leader. If that sits well with you and you want a Labour government fair do's. I want a decent Labour government but this stinks. Stand up and critisise. I already have ( to probably nil effect). The man is a disgrace on this. I'd like to see a pro-Starmer person on here justify his comments apart from a cynical justification that we need a Labour government under said Starmer.

 

Just look back at my previous posts - I'm definitely no fan of Starmer. But he's a pragmatist, and I can see his logic without agreeing with it.

 

The by election results should be interesting.

 

Ok but as Owen Jones has pointed out on his Guardian article (can't find a link at moment ) his logic is flawed. He either agrees with international law or he doesn't. Simply saying he is being pragmatic is a crap argument. The context is wrong for being 'pragmatic'. He should be clear and should condemn ALL violence. He should also say he utterly condemns Israeli 'instructions' for people to evacuate when they have nowhere to go and he should condemn Israeli restrictions on food water and fuel going into Gaza. That's what he should do. Its not Starmer being 'pragmatic' its Starmer ignoring things on purpose. As I said previously I would like to see a Starmer supporter explain, genuinely, why they support Starmer on this beyond merely wanting a Labour government.

 

Yep, fully agree on all counts (and I've read the article in question, I think). I'm not a Starmer supporter, so will leave it up to those who are to respond.

 

Very noble of you. Please have the same ire for the Tory prime minister now and again.

 

I dont think I'm being 'noble'. Why would you suggest so? Please do me the courtesy of responding to my arguments properly.
As to Sunak and the Tories I have an innate distate for him/them. However, as said, please respond to my posts instead of what looks like using deflection tactics to dodge the issue I brought up

 

interesting how I was told in no uncertain terms, higher up in the thread that this conflict has nothing to do with religion I wonder why the muslim vote en-masse would move away from Labour then? I think once you start chasing a block vote and allowing them to dictate your policies you're forever held ransom to them. Also

 

nyself and plenty of others have responded to you. Many times. A poster wrote you a very very detailed response on one thread which you blatantly ignored because it seems you had no answer or didn’t like the response you got. I don’t know. For what it’s worth most of us agree with some of your points but are prepared to have a more rounded view. To repeat them again and again without once calling out the prime minister wears thin to be fair, you don’t like starmer we get that, to turn every argument and conversation into a starmer bashing because you want something else is all well and good but don’t be surprised when some others don’t share your opinion.it seems to me there is a culture led by the press of the tories f*ck it up and Labour voters blame Starmer. Utterly bizarre.

 

You're entitled to your view. I accept that and anytime you argue a point I'll respect your comments. As to a previous thread where I didn't respond I can't recall but if you link it I'll have a look and comment if I think I need to. As to my Starmer comments, I too am allowed to express my opinion I hope and if I call him out for the 'right' reasons as I hope I do then I think my comments are valid. Doesn't mean I am pro Tory (although I would also be entitled to argue for them if I wished) but as a Labour bloke at heart I do think the leadership needs calling out on this issue. He's wrong on Gaza in my opinion. Somebody made a comment about Starmer's position so I chipped in. I don't think my comments are utterly bizarre to be honest in the context which I've just mentioned. Starmer is a Labour leader, not a Tory and from that position he should be much more empathetic and sympathetic re the Palestinians than he is. Sorry if you find my comments a tad irritating but what specifically have I said about Starmer that's wrong on this issue?
No problem with you disagreeing with me as I've implied and if you make a counter argument all well and good, but I don't think you are really. You seem to be simply fed up with me slagging Starmer off and, again, on this issue I think he should be slagged off irrespective of what Sunak and the nasty party do.

 

The terrible leader just overturned another two massive Tory majorities!