James McClean

Fair enough. But for my part, I was ready to walk out of Oakwell the last time he played here due to the utterly ignorant abuse he was receiving. Let's agree to disagree as to whether it was justified.

 

There's no one disputing that.

The poppy represents ALL British soldiers and ALL wars. Obviously those on the receiving end of British aggression and expansionism don't want to wear something that commemorates soldiers who committed atrocities in their backyard.

That's doesn't mean that someone who doesn't wear the poppy doesn't respect WWII soldiers.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

Maybe, but also why has this become a required part of football, I don't remember all this until fairly recently, what changed? Maybe his action invite deeper questions which people don't want to answer?
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news/poppy-armistice-day-2019-remembrance-a9198001.html

 

In Flanders Fields
BY JOHN MCCRAE

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


The poppy commemorated WW1, particularly the battles fought on the western front and understandably was further adopted for those that fell in WW2. Many Irish fought in those wars.
Its only in recent decades that those with an inkling to, have politicised those memories.

Perhaps the British Legion should have kept the poppies symbolism for the 2 WWs and avoided the the inevitable Irish and Afghani debate that has potentially allowed those with such desire to tarnish its image, but they probably didn't think they'd need to pre millennial.

 

Yep it is indeed. I have the wolfe tones record personally but I wouldn't go out and sing them at people or at football matches.

 

Would also add to this that many British soldiers who fought in WWI, were subsequently sent to Ireland to subdue the locals in our war of independence. Those poor souls had just endured the horrors of a world war, trench warfare and the Somme. I'm sure many had PTSD and were in no mental shape to remain in service. They did however then commit many an atrocity in Ireland like driving a tank into Croke Park during a game and opening fire on the crowd. Due to this, Irish people would also be unlikely to wear a poppy commemorating these soldiers.

Weirdly my brother just left his post as head of fundraising for the poppy appeal. He hates the politicalisation of it. For him the poppy appeal is a charity which raises much needed funds for retired members of the armed forces who are in need. I donate to the poppy appeal, but given my Irish background I wouldn't wear one.

 

Much like the Rafiq scandal, you can be a disagreeable person *and* be wronged.

 

Do you wear the White poppy. Promotes peace. ? Lots do.

Would you say the acts of James McClean are in unison with the thoughts of the General population of Republicans. ? Nobody is questioning his right not to wear the red poppy. Then wear a white one. I'm sure it fills his requirements. He says he'd wear a red poppy if it only commemorated ww1 and ww2.

The atrocities caused by republicans or IRA on these shores should also be not overlooked. And he is a supporter of the IRA.

There are many English/British organisations that don't wear a poppy either. For many different reasons. One for saying it glorifies war. (Only in their tiny little minds) It's one those that I imagine your Brother packed in over. And I do get that if the case. But I would imagine much deeper as he would be more aware other organisations pro and anti poppy.

What is his stance cos I would imagine he wore one. ? And it is a sad indictment of the politicisation winning the battle. If he felt the need to resign.

I wear one in memory/respect of the dead. And donate to the victims of war injured or mentally scarred. Totally opposite to glorification. Many battles were fought for the wrong reasons. And the British empire (now the commonwealth) has/had a lot to answer to. Not least the recent (2018) treatment of windrush victims.

But should we be guilty for the atrocities of the distant past.

I also know you cant stand by and allow rogue nations (eg Russia) to batter countries/regimes into submission for their own ends. Wouldnt it be great if we lived in a world without war. Instead of our future generations living in fear.

 

That's very well thought out ,and put across really well.

 

I'm going to try and tackle these one by one, some may have to wait for the morning when I'm sober!

I don't wear any poppy, have never felt the need to and it's not somthing I've been brought up with.

General feeling in Ireland is that McClean is a bit of an eejit who courts controversy, but there is understanding of his background and how it's impacted him. In Ireland, similar to England we have flag ******** who are very patriotic. Ours are pro-IRA, we don't like them. Yours are militant about the poppy, we also don't like them.

The IRA has been in existence for much longer than it has been in the British consciousness. They won the civil war in Ireland and were not a terrorist organisation until much later in their history. 99% of people are of course against innocents dying and atrocities on either side. However catholics in NI were second class citizens who had everything taken from them and had no rights, no property, no vote and no prospects for hundreds of years. It is unsurprising that they finally rose up and resorted to extreme measures. To give a modern day example Republicans were Palestine, the UK was very much Israel.

My brother is English, 20 years older than me. Captained a ship in the navy. Left the poppy appeal and the Rotal British Legion for a better job, which is less all consuming as he edges towards retirement. Like many, my family is both British and Irish, I have family who died in both wars.

Agree on Windrush.

Also agree that you are not guilty for atrocities of the past. Of course you aren't. However those who show a lack of understanding by politicising the poppy and demand those who were victims of past atrocities to honour their oppressors are bringing those conflicts into the new age. How we make peace with the past is educating ourselves and trying to understand and respect opposing opinions. In general there is a large lack of knowledge in the rest of the UK about what happened in Northern Ireland.

For sure, a world without war is the dream, however the world needs to be policed as Putin has shown and it needs powers like Britain to play a leading role in this. Empire is dead, but there are still good fights to fight and sadly, there always will be. Northern Ireland is at peace now and that peace needs to be nurtured by education, understanding and compassion. We all have a responsibility to that end.

 

What about our Germans, Leese, Muller, anyone dug into their past? God forbid we sign a Japanese.
Today and tomorrow are all that matters now, because seriously, our World is on the edge. Peace and love guys. Oh, and..............for head coach.

 

That's why I read a book called Famine.
So I have a better understanding about Irish history.
I still support my first point about the person in question being an eejit as you point out too.

 

Great Role model to his kids….