Jimmy Krankie

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

There's the real world and Krankie world, she doesn't

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

DSL I do not know enough about it to put up a realistic arguement but would it not be the case that if Scotland was to get its independence before brexit then theoretically we would not need to join the EU as we never left. I'm sure I heard this point being made recently.

 

Re: But

I think you misunderstand the point I was making, ie that May has promised Sturgeon that we won't trigger article 50 till the Scots are happy with the deal, but Europe won't negotiate with us till we have done, hence there can't be a deal for the Scots to be happy with. Chicken and egg situation.

 

Re: But

This article seems to say the same. All a bit of a stand off.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36819182

 

Re: But

Why are we stalling just because Scotland voted to stay. London voted to stay but are we trying to appease the bloody cockneys. I agree with the guys above Scotland will be independent sooner or later so do it now. This country always comes good no matter which pleb is at the helm, it will do so again.
I really hope the Scots do well for them selves but if you believe England is doomed for leaving the EU but the Scots will prosper on their own your deluded.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

As a supporter of the United Kingdom I hope Scotland stays. however I do worry for the vast majority should they exit the United Kingdom and were there to be a global recession. Unless Scotland can somehow benefit from England leaving and Scotland remaining (unlikely as the trade Scotland relies on from England both in and out will be a key factor in any successful economy should the oil industry go the way of the experts predictions in future generations) then unfortunately the poorest will suffer greatest as always.

In the same way I think the British people were blinded into voting leave from some sense of nationalistic pride it would be exactly the same north of the border. You will be potentially voting future generations into crippling debt beyond control given the failing state of the eurozone.

England, Whether people chose to accept it or not, is the 4th largest economy on the earth. And their are huge trade benefits to be found from leaving the EU. I still wish we had stayed to help reform it, and improve life for the many across Europe and at home that will continue to suffer. However I am glad that every person who voted for racist or xenophobic reasons will be left bitterly dissapointed. I only wish there was a vote to remove them from the UK and Europe.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

But there's the point in a way..... We could all have free prescriptions ffs. Not giving English/Welsh free prescriptions is a political device, not an economic one. It would be affordable for the 5th richest economy in the world if there was a will. To imply you want the Scots to stop allowing free prescriptions is awful. As for letting them drift...If they do go independent good luck to them. It will be a lesson for the Conservative and Unionist Party that their neglect of people outside of the south-east does have consequences

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

I totally agree with you on this point alone.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

I am not sure on a constitutional point but the EU referendum was a UK event so I would imagine that Scotland has been committed by the vote to leave as it formed part of the UK vote..... Just a thought

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

Yes I agree there. But wouldn't the argument be used that Scotland the country voted to remain and as such would be leaving the UK and keeping our EU membership. It really is a right mess but interesting at the same time.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

To be quite honest I'm well pissed off that any of us are leaving as I've said on the referendum thread.... But on the point you make about Scotland the country, I would suggest that for the purposes of the referendum Scotland does not count as a country so to speak... it's just part of the UK at the moment. No doubt some lawyers could be employed on both sides

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

Yes that is a fair argument mate. I'm sure there will be plenty of reasons put forward to suggest that Scotland is a Country only just in a partnership with 3 others.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

Looking like wheels are in motion regarding the thorny question of the pound.

We’re in the Scottish money. Or at least we’re going to be if Scotland becomes independent. The Sunday Herald is reporting that the Scottish Government is studying plans for a separate Scottish currency in the event of independence. This immediately removes the Westminster veto threat which blighted the last independence referendum, their insistence that Scotland would not be ‘allowed’ to use the pound sterling, and which reduced the debate to the utterly inane Unionist claim that Scotland would be the only country on the planet which was unable to have any sort of currency at all. Cue the usual sneers about the groat or the bawbee.

The truth is that there’s absolutely nothing to prevent Scotland from using the pound if that what we chose to do. It’s not like after independence the rUK government is going to be able to send squads of SAS to the checkout at Morrisons to demand that we all empty our pockets and turn over illicit sterling. Using a currency unilaterally wouldn’t be the best option for an independent Scotland, but there’s bugger all that Westminster could do to stop us if that’s what we chose to do. That the nonsensical claim that Scotland wouldn’t be ‘allowed’ to use the pound ever gained any traction at all is simply evidence of the fact that the assertions of the Better Together campaign were not subject to proper scrutiny by Scotland’s predominantly Unionist media.

It takes a very small mind, a breathtaking lack of imagination, to believe that somehow Scotland would be uniquely incapable of establishing a currency of its own. The sneers and dismissiveness of those who crack unfunny jokes about the bawbee are a reflection of their own shortcomings, not of Scotland’s.

Even much smaller states with smaller populations and fewer resources are able to start their own currencies. Estonia has a population of just over 1,300,000 and far fewer natural resources and a much weaker economy than Scotland, which was additionally burdened by the immense difficulties and pain of transitioning from the decayed command economy of the Soviet Union to a modern European economy. Yet despite these massive disadvantages and challenges which Scotland doesn’t face, Estonia was able to establish its own currency which it was capable of keeping stable enough for long enough for Estonia to go on and join the Eurozone. Estonia joined the Euro because it chose to sign up to ERMII. Scotland doesn’t have to choose that path. Being forced to adopt the Euro is a Unionist myth just like the myth that Scotland could be prevented from using sterling.

But Scotland won’t be able to do even as well as Estonia, according to the non-functioning neurones of the Unionist hive-mind. A stable Scottish currency wouldn’t be possible. Just, you know, because reasons. For generations Scotland has been told it’s poor, it’s unimportant, it’s incapable, and they’ve internalised that message on a deep level. Then they project their own inadequacies onto Scotland, and demand that the rest of us respect and accept their ‘realism’.

The argument from the indy side was that the pound sterling was an intangible asset of the UK and therefore Scotland had a right to it in the same way that we have a right to our fair share in the tangible assets of the UK on becoming independent. Deny us assets, and Scotland has every right to tell the UK treasury that it can stick its UK national debt up its arse. If Scotland isn’t getting the assets, then we’re not taking on the debt. And let’s not forget that this is debt with the UK treasury’s name on it. Scotland has no legal obligation. No financial institution anywhere in the world possesses an IOU saying “We owe you squillions and squillions. Pinky promise to pay you back. Love, Scotland.” If Westminster wants Scotland to take on a share of the UK national debt, they’re going to have to play nice.

Some have argued that Scotland has a moral obligation to take on a share of the UK debt, and this may very well be true. Scotland, they say, would be hammered by the credit agencies for not acting morally. But show me an international lending bank which operates on the principle of morality and I’ll show you a Disney cartoon full of fluffy talking bunnies. Actually you could equally argue that the reverse was true, that Scotland would be hammered by the credit agencies for taking on debt which was not legally ours. After all, how confident can you be as a lender that you’re going to be repaid if the person you lend to keeps taking on debts that belong to other people?

Unionists denied that the pound was an intangible asset, clearly never having heard of the concept of “brand identity”. When a business changes hands, a portion of the price paid by the new owners is a payment for intangibles like brand identity and customer loyalty. Denying Scotland access to the pound sterling means denying Scotland its share in the brand identity and customer loyalty built up in the stability of the pound sterling, a stability and brand identity to which Scotland has contributed. If Scotland is going to give up its right to use the pound sterling, since Westminster made it perfectly clear last time that they’re not going to tolerate our right to do so, then they’re going to have to pay. The decision to start a new Scottish currency means that in future independence negotiations Holyrood will no longer have to plead with Westminster for cooperation in a currency union, now Westminster will have to plead with Holyrood about how much of Westminster’s debt Scotland is prepared to take on.

Mind you, next time we won’t want to use the pound sterling, on account of the fact that when Brexit bites the rUK pound will be on a par with the ginger bottle. Scotland will be doing itself no favours at all to tie itself to a currency that’s plummeting in value and as hard as wet toilet paper.

The reality, the real reality as opposed to the sneers of diehard Unionist trolls, is that Scotland is perfectly able to establish its own currency, a currency which will be stable and serviceable. Scotland will also take on a share of the UK national debt, although since we’re not going to be using the rUK’s pound sterling an independent Scotland’s share of the UK’s national debt will be reduced accordingly. Scotland is going to establish its own currency, and it’s going to be more stable than sterling. Watch and see. Scotland will be in the Scottish money.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

Very good point, but its typical of the remainers, they lost so lets replay the game. So Sheff Utd.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

Well said mate.... there are enough people slagging Scots, Irish, Welsh off...... Scotland is a proud country and IF they choose to leave I'm sure they will make a success of the currency, finances, defence, foreign policy etc etc....

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

We were only 5th before and are quite probably 6th now due to currency fluctuations after the vote.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

Nicola is looking out for the views of her electorate and who can blame her for that. If only England had such an able politician we probably wouldn't be in the state we are in. Of course Scotland could survive and thrive outside the UK either using its own currency or the Euro. I imagine there will be another referendum within 2 years.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

Not wanting to start an argument but what Economic model are you using to assert the above? Oil revenues are falling year on year. Even if the 90% of NS oilfiields located in a newly formed Scottish territory were ceded to the newly formed Scottish parliament, even when Oil revenue was at its peak, Scotland ran a deficit. Add the bailout by Westminster of the RBS and propping up of the economy the remaining UK might reasonably argue some of the future revenues would be reasonable recompense. Many companies who locate and extract the oil may well mount legal challenges if their slice of the pie is in any way compromised.
As for the concept of an independent Scotland 'inheriting' EU membership that has already been ruled out unequivocally by the EU and they would have to apply to join and comply with all the requirements, one of which is that new members HAVE to join the eurozone.

That would leave several years of Scotland going it alone without access to Westminster subsidies and no EU funding and having to, like the UK, negotiate trade agreements, at the same time find an interim currency and balance the depleted budget. Fish, whisky and some hi-tec business reducing oil reserves and plummeting crude prices due to over production and fall in demand. How would Scotland "thrive outside the UK" ?

Just asking.

 

Re: they can **** off to Europe for me

I thought the official Brexiteer position was the economic consequences don't matter so long as you have freedom from a body you didn't elect...