Re: they can **** off to Europe for me Smaller less economically powerful countries than Scotland manage. We can't have it all ways. We are either a strong vibrant economy that doesn't need Europe ( and of course Scotland is part of that economy) or we are not. I suspect if push comes to shove The powers that be at the EU may fast track Scotland just to spite the rest of the U.K. The whole of the U.K. Has a budget deficit that is increasing. As you said in your views on the EU exit it's all conjecture no one knows. Ignore the 'experts' Scotland would have its sovereignty and that is key as a strong economy like ours/theirs can survive. Also lots of EU countries that currently have trade agreements with us may choose Scotland in the future if they are part of the EU not the rest of the U.K.
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me What has Brexit got to do with the question I asked about Scottish independence? However, if insist on talking about the EU what do you think the economic consequences will be the inevitable collapse of the Euro whether we are in the EU or out of it?
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me Some of what you say may be true but the 'fast track' scenario will not happen. The EU has already stated as such and there would be uproar from member states (and vetoes) and other countries currently applying to join if they fast tracked a country into membership without that country meeting the requirements. It simply won't happen. Remember it is primarily the EU commission members that are taking the hard line refarding Brexit, talking of 'making an example' of the UK to prevent others following suit, and they will not be part of any negotiations . Member states, ultimately, will be controlled by big business and companies like Siemens, Mercedes, etc will not tolerate the line taken by Junckers, Tusk etc. if their profits take a big hit. Even Merkel acknowledged this, taking a softer line. Besides the Euro WILL fail within 5 years taking much of the EU commissions political aspirations with it. Interesting times ahead within or without.
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me sorry Ian but if Scotland leave they would be regarded as a new entity. The EU commission and member states have already categorically stated that an independent Scotland cannot 'inherit' the UK EU membership and they would have to apply in the normal way, and worse still satisfy all the requirements for new members (including adopting the Euro) . Any ideas like the one Jimmy Cricket put forward of the EU fast tracking to spite the UK wont happen as member states would veto it and also there would be a huge outcry from current applicants going thrugh the process. Besides I cannot see how an independent Scotland would be anything but a net recipient of EU funding for the forseeable future making it a less than attractive proposition to the main EU contributors with UK leaving. I think it is heart ruling the head especially as I am convinced -and in spite of what people have accused me off - it was one of my main reasons for voting out. It may sound contradictory in voting for Brexit whilst suggesting Scotland stay in the union, but I genuinely believe the two situations, whilst on the face of it look the same, are vastly are different. Many 'experts' espouse Scotland could go it alone, but, like Brexit, if you remove from the list the 'experts' who are truly independent then it is nothing like as clear cut on either issue. If you truly believe the UK is doomed then I would argue that joining the EU would be like selling your Titanic ticket and replacing it with one for the Lusitania
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me You paint a very bleak picture there Tekky, almost as bleak as what remaining within this broken Union and being lorded over by the likes of Boris and May. I prefer to take my chance of voting to self govern. Whether it comes to pass is another question but it to me looks the better option.
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me Fair enough. I harbour no malice whatsoever towards Scotland. My great grandad on my father's side (and generations before him) was a ginger haired 6ft 5in tall Scot (nothing like the romanticised kilted highland warrior type sadly) We came from one of the border 'clans' with a reputation apparently (rightly or wrongly) for being sheep stealers and border thieves and there is a small town in Berwickshire with the same name as my surname. My grandad moved to Durham as a miner and so I am 2nd generation English I suppose. Nothing to do with the discussion but a mere observation to point out I am not some rabid anti-Scottish Englishman. I have a few English friends in Perthshire who moved for job reasons years ago and would never come back to England. Quality of life, schools, shops food, people are great. Scottish midges are another thing though and put our mozzies here to shame.
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me Aren't there parallels between you wanting independence for the UK from Europe and Scotland wanting independence from the UK? If your view is that freedom is more important than economy then surely your view would logically be the same regarding Scotland. That's the point he was getting at I believe
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me That would be correct but the assumption has been made (if you are pointing at me) was that I voted out purely for ideological reasons i.e. 'freedom' (not sure freedom from what) although I suppose it makes a change from assumptions from some that I did it for the idea that immigration would be stopped. In fact I had many reasons for voting the way I did but a reasonable summary would be that I do not believe the EU commission is willing or capable of making changes from its set ideological path and we would not influence that path either from within or outside the EU. Nor do I believe the EU and especially the Euro will survive beyond the next 4 or 5 years. So I would rather be clear of the undertow as the SS EU goes down even if the lifeboat is a little cramped and provisions are running a bit low. Neither did I make my decision based on the views of experts given that many have an agenda or allegiance to the EU and I especially ignored the rantings and lies of the MPs both (Brexit and Remain) and the Press or BBC Channel 4 Sky etc. BOTH sides told lies the biggest being the fantasy £350m per week to the NHS -yeah!! and also the full single market access without strings Hmmmm!!! on one side and the £4800 per household cost if we leave and the immediate 20% devaluation of sterling . The final straw was Gideon's threat of an emergency austerity budget which was nonsense as you dont create an austerity budget when a stimulus to the economy is essential in the wake of what they predicted would happen. Like I say, many on here take the opposite view but only time will tell which of us was right. In the meantime, nothing has happened to make me change my mind that I had not expected although I was taken aback at the moronic behaviour of a few targetting migrants like Poles who have lived here for many years and are part of the communities.
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me That was the assumption I think he was making, or how I read it anyway. Could be wrong
Re: they can **** off to Europe for me I have relatives who live in Glasgow, a couple of who are self employed. The impression is although they voted to stay in Europe, they have also stated that they Would not vote for independence. My sister in law is a Clinical manager In Glasgow and she stated that the NHS in Scotland would be against independence purely because the Funding from the UK could not be generated independently .
