Keir Starmer

There have not been 111,000 boat crossings in a year. Please don’t conflate the boat crossing element with people seeking refuge through other means.

 

Just remember, there are around 70,000,000 people in this country. Of that number, close to 3,000,000 are millionaires with 156 billionaires too.

There are currently 32,000 asylum seekers in hotels (was 56,000 under the last government). So, 0.046% of the population.

Makes you wonder why there’s so much fuss over such a small portion of the population…..

 

Do you have a gate on your garden or a front door on your house you lock at night or do you just leave it open and let anyone in free world and all that.
It's the fact that these unchecked males are coming over then getting put up in hotels and the last government and this have failed to stop it when kier said he would smash the gangs. I think when working people are getting taxed the highest since the 1940s after the way then we see the government spunking tens of billions each year of tax payers money on hotels it frustrates people. I'm also not sure what relevance the number of millionaires to people entering a country illegally and costing taxpayers billions each year.

 

Out of interest mate what’s the definition of a millionaire here - 3m cash in bank or 3m of assets including primary residence? Would assume latter ?

 

It's one of the regrets of our age that the (mainly) right wing media can spout conflated rubbish like this, and that there are people gullible enough to swallow it whole. Let's remember who created this problem.

 

I know you like your stats so here are a few more. 65% of the growth in our population 2003 to 2024 has come from net migration. Around 1m people come in and 0.5k leave giving around +500k people per year approx. Given the fact that deaths outnumber births it is predicted that the UK population would decline if we didn’t have immigration. So it helps our country grow. However there is a tipping point where it can go the other way if too high. Take up more resources, less contribution to the economy etc. this is where we are in people’s eyes. We are spending millions on managing this. So the issue isn’t do we want immigration as clearly we do, but not at extreme high levels. The boat topic is a drop in the ocean (pardon the pun) compared to the net migration overall. So the issue is polarised to illegal immigrants / asylum seekers etc when actually this is a bigger problem than we often see debated.

so what’s my view. I believe it is out of control. Seems like the last and current government agree as do many observers, economists and general public. Immigration is an important topic for any economy and as with all economic and political topics it needs to be managed effectively to be beneficial. Some of the biggest issues have come from legal immigration and we need policies that now manage this going forwards. Those millionaire tax right now is quite useful, someone has to pay for it right?

 

Sky news did a report yesterday where they visited Bournemouth and asked for their views given a rise in migrant numbers.

The part that stood out for me wasn't any fact or figure, or reasoned discussion or standpoint.

It was a woman simply giving her opinion on migration on the street. She'd asked to conceal her identity. She was then asked a couple of questions and there may be some paraphrasing here, but one line about migrants was "they don't look like us."

She then cut the interview short. Gathered herself for a bit and looked to tone down what she'd said.

This is racism. This is xenophobia. This is decades of the likes of the Mail and Express sowing fear into the population that anyone who isn't white and "British" (and even then, they like to wage war on certain parts of that cohort) is here to do you over. Steal your life. Take your job. Take your partner. Do harm to your child. Invade your property. Take your doctors appointment. Get the last sweet from the jar.

It's utter rot. And ironic how several of these media magnates don't live in the UK, don't pay tax in the UK and may even have been born off the shores of the UK. Foreigners. Migrants. Yet these migrants are believed and listened to as they plant their bile in the minds of people without critical thinking.

A decade ago, the same ilk were decrying the Polish migrants along with other Eastern Europeans. That led to the biggest act of self harm. Many at the time said the choice wouldn't stop us needing migrants and all that would happen is we'd get our migration from other areas. And those racists who had voted for brexit would be even more angry when the faces were brown. Sadly, that's borne out emphatically.

It's an inconvenient truth but this island nation has a large rump of racists. And their ignorance is being fed lies and distortions that don't allow grown up discussion. It's intentionally being done, to distract from the uber rich paying nominal amounts of tax and to create demons in other quarters.

As a tangent. Yesterday there was a report about global wildfires. We sometimes hear about fires in Europe. We always pretty much hear about them in America. Yet 85% of wildfires for the period (circa 15 years to 2021) were in Africa. Something we hear just virtually nothing about. Why is that? More racism? Intent to cover up reasons for population movement?

We have wars, climate change, some countries with atrocious human rights regimes that persecute their people. That leads to displacement of people and requiring a new home.

It will get worse. And at some point, our little isle is going to get smaller. Our shores are eroding, sea levels are rising. Our own land is subject to flooding and wildfires. We too will have displacement. Will we expect tolerance? Will we expect push back? Will we expect to be effectively jailed and humiliated and campaigned against? To be faced with deportation as we are persecuted for wanting pennies a day and being given a grim room with little amenities?

There are tolerant good people who live in the UK. Some are migrants. Sadly, there are people who are very much the opposite. Filled with hate, entitlement and resentment that have been whipped up into a furore. To be angry about something that actually makes very little difference to the way they can live their lives.

 

https://x.com/parody_pm/status/1958452502329700732?s=46

Just about sums up the thick racists. Moved to Spain because there are too many foreigners in the UK!

 

Is that first woman Harry Hill's mam?

 

I get the frustration, but comparing asylum seekers to leaving your front door open isn’t really the same. A country has laws and processes, the problem is the backlog – if claims were processed faster, people wouldn’t be stuck in hotels costing so much money. And as I say, it’s just a teeny tiny amount of people. The way it’s been turned into the hot topic says everything about the folk running the country and the empty heads who lap it up.

Also, the millionaire point is relevant: ordinary workers are taxed more heavily while the wealthiest benefit from loopholes and tax breaks. That’s where a huge amount of lost revenue is, so it’s unfair to single out refugees as the main drain when mismanagement and inequality are the bigger issues.

 

Yeah, it’s based on total net wealth – so assets like property, investments, pensions, savings etc. minus liabilities. For most, it’s not £3m cash sat in a bank but things like owning a house that’s gone up in value plus other assets. And I’m not knocking anyone getting on in life. There’s someone in my family with that kind of wealth. But they ought to be paying more than the rest of us, in my opinion.

 

I've mentioned this to you many times, but your ability to understand cause and effect leaves a lot to be desired.

 

I love stats.

Immigration has to be managed properly – I’m not arguing for a free-for-all. But the “out of control” framing doesn’t quite match the reality: a lot of migration is filling labour shortages in sectors like health and care, where without it the system would already be on its knees. The population would actually shrink without immigration, which brings its own economic problems.

You’re right that asylum boats are a small part compared to overall net migration, but they are the ones grabbing headlines. It suits the right wing agenda. The bigger picture is how we manage legal migration so it benefits the country long-term, rather than fuelling short-term resentment.

And yes – someone has to pay for it. That’s why the millionaire point matters: ordinary working people are carrying the heaviest tax load since the 1940s, while the wealthiest still have plenty of ways to soften their bill. If we want resources to manage immigration properly, it makes sense to start by ensuring those with the broadest shoulders contribute fairly.

Or we can just carry on with this Tory/Labour approach and right wing capitalist mess.

“Rather that than Reform” folk will tell you.

No. Rather we go left please.

 

Go on mention it again I'm dying to hear your take

 

Imo we’re just getting further and further into the politics of hate where it’s easier to blame people for problems rather than solve them. It’s asylum seekers now but it’ll move onto other groups in time, people think it’s fine and then before they know it they’re the target. Hard to watch it fester.

 

Getting extra sassy these days as well.

Cause: Idiots voting for Brexit, coupled with Tories closing all legal immigration routes, thus forcing asylum seekers to take on illegal and dangerous journeys to reach the UK and then be processed in the UK rather than elsewhere. Tory government then not investing in processing asylum seekers which caused a huge backlog and billions of wasted tax payers pounds. Then blaming their ineptitude on the asylum seekers themselves which the hard of thinking lap up.

Effect: Billions wasted, hundreds if not thousands of lives lost at sea which were entirely preventable and a frenzied right wing blaming asylum seekers for their own shitty, failed lives. Note, none of the protestors are educated, wealthy or intelligent, they are all failures.

Side note: Many have criminal records and the country would be much safer with the asylum seekers than the protestors.

Redrum's solution, blame Keir Starmer as a short term answer to a problem he didn't create, but is too complex for redrum to understand.

Keir's actual track record - reducing hotel usage by 40% in 1 year - saving billions. Very good.

Number of people crossing is up which is not good. But the government are working on longer term solutions which need time to pay off.

 

It's worth noting that this government has exerted a great amount of effort on actually tracking small boat crossings. Something that historically wasn't done. Technically the numbers are going up but its very hard to establish whether this is actually just because we know about far more crossings than before. In order to stop them, step one was being able to track them.

The biggest help would be if we actually went back to having an asylum process that didn't require people actually having to physically get here in order to apply. The closing off of most application mechanisms for people not actually in the country caused this and led to all this hotel nonsense where we have to house them while they are being processed.

 

As Gary's Economics says, "if you're stonkingly rich you don't want people taxing you more, so you're going to fund right wing parties who aren't going to tax you and will instead pin the blame for everyone else's lack of jobs and opportunities on immigrants."

It's essentially a diversion for people unable to see when they are being played. The issue isn't immigrants it's a lack of taxation on extremely rich people who don't want to pit more into the pot

 

That's interesting, as I always thought it excluded primary residence - as value of primary residence is often a very unreliable indicator of disposable income and general affluence. One of my mum's friends is a case in point - their lives followed very similar trajectories, with them both going to university, becoming teachers, and buying a nice but unspectacular family home in the early 80's. My mum's is quite a lot bigger than her friend's, as she went to work in Lincolnshire whereas her friend got a job near Twickenham. So while my folks could buy a detached house with a large garden, mum's friend had to get a much more modest semi, and pay £7000 more for the privilege.

Fast forward 40 years, they're both retired with very comfortable but not huge pensions. They're both enjoying their retirement, going on Saga holidays, visiting London exhibitions, going to the theatre etc. But due to the completely skewed housing market in the UK, while my mum's place is probably worth around £300k tops, her friend just had her house valued at £1.2 million. For a 3 bed semi.

Obviously she needs a roof over her head and has very little intention of moving in her 70's. So while on paper she's a millionaire, in reality and lifestyle, she's just a retired teacher.

The biggest irony is when they meet in central London, their travel time to King's Cross is exactly the same, around 80 minutes door to door.