Keith hill.....

Agree. I had a bet that he would be made Manager at 16/1 so was well pleased with his appointment.

 

I never said he didn't I just compared the budget he had compared to hill and if he had parity with what Robins had he would have done as well if not better in my opinion...

 

Butterfield was just developing under managers pre-Hill, he wasn't ready to play as the fulcrum of the team. I'm sure he'd have forced himself into the side if Robins had stayed.

 

Sorry mate but much of that post is to me largely obviously wrong.

How can the people sacking managers be the only people to blame, if people like our Keith alienate supporters and thus place themselves in a position where the hierarchy are left with no choice?

Plus DW may not have been given the time this time. But your post, like others, harps back to his previous era, as though it should have earned him the right to take us to Div 2 if necessary. It did not.

The majority on here were ok for DW to continue. So if you think PC was swayed at all by the few cranks who shout loudest on here and elsewhere then you have a low opinion of him.

And we seem better placed now than would have been the case had we not changed managers. But who knows?

 

Doesn't surprise me.

They appoint these men, they then pull the trigger. Were there lots of chanting at games, "manager out" etc, I'd accept that 'the fans' are partly responsible. It's my opinion that they aren't.

I didn't harp back to anything. I described him as our best ever manager. It's a fact, isn't it? I felt devastated when learning of his (in my opinion) harsh dismissal. The feelgood factor might be upon us this week, despite a draw and a defeat, and whilst I'm certainly one of the more positive of posters on this forum, even I struggle to see much of a difference since we changed managers 6 months ago.

Gordon Ottershaw suggested that PC made reference to the fans being patient, would we give LJ time. I think the vast majority wanted Wilson and Flitcroft to be given time, our two most recent sackings (one, after just 18 games). I'm not suggesting PC is acting on the wishes of a minority of folk on here, course not. I'm merely disagreeing with the assumption that we supporters are to blame when a manager is sacked, or that we lack the patience/stomach for a long term plan.

Nobody does, but as I also said (despite you disagreeing with my post), I feel optimistic with the current team in situ, and I'd like (again) to see them given as long as it takes.

 

In my view, it is not those who comment on social media or the cynics bulletin boards who get managers the sack. I do not even think that it is the people on the Ponty End who get managers the sack. In my view, the people who get managers the sack are the people who are prepared to withdraw their support from the club that they purport to love with a passion, who get managers the sack. Those who sing, we'll support you ever more when the team are winning, but after a string of poor results, they simply stop going.

Ben referred to the published attendance numbers being overstated towards the end of Danny's reign because even season ticket holders who are automatically included in the numbers, just were not turning up.

I hope Lee Johnson is given time, but I have made that comment in relation to every manager. The comments I make in my "Minority Reports" are comments on games, not on where the manager should go. We clearly have a new policy for recruitment, and recruitment under Danny was a bit haphazard, but like you say, whether it will be any more successful than previous policies, only time will tell. The problem is, if a player does well, he will be temped away and although we will be financially compensated, a team is built when players stay together for a long period. The current team still has three square pegs in 3 round holes and the slowness of the building process means that we risk losing our better players before we fill those gaps and put together a proper team.

Achieving promotion is less than half the battle. The last time that we were promoted, we went up before we were ready. It led to 8 years of struggle and eventual relegation. When we are promoted next time, we need to have a strong core, so that when we strengthen, the core remains stable and the strengthening involves recruitment of just one or two, not the whole team as has happened recently. This too can only happen if we retain our manager over a long period.

The point about all this is that the supporters must have patience, and they must keep turning up to watch even when they do not particularly want to. It is only from a stable revenue base that we can build a stable management structure, and from that, a stable first team squad playing good football because they understand each other, the runs they all make, how they all want the ball delivered and how they all defend. We will all have our favourites, and those that we do not rate. I dare say that mine would be different to most. But ultimately, we do not count. The manager knows the sort of team he wants to build and we are mere observers and commentators, no matter how much we think we know, or how much we would like it to be otherwise.

 

I think Keith built a fantastic team on a low budget, the problem was he wasn't able to build a second one.

He was unlucky really in that he almost built a team that was too good as it was inevitable that Butterfield, Vaz Te & Drinkwater would get poached.

I think the difference was he could cope with losing players at Rochdale as he was still able to compete in the division against the sides around him.

With us in the championship it was a hard enough job already as there were only a couple of sides on similar budgets, Millwall, Scunny, Donny etc. and it meant by losing one or two players we became whipping boys a lot of the time & I don't think he could handle losing most games.

I believe he mentally gave up & was almost hoping for the sack by the end. The selection of Wiseman & Done in his last game was the writing on the wall.

I still believe he's a decent manager & if he got a job in the championship with for example a Blackburn or Bolton that he'd fare well against similar sized clubs & probably over achieve.

I also think he was unlucky that he got the Barnsley job when he did due to the cutting back on expenditure. I would've liked to have seen him with the budget Davey or Robins had

 

The big thing with Butterfield was his fitness. He came back a different, leaner, fitter player that summer. Whether that was down to Robins, Hill or just a case of Butterfield maturing & making the most of his ability is up for debate.