Labour Leader Demands Lockdown

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by wombwell-red, Oct 13, 2020.

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  1. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I agree on Toby Young. But it doesn't matter who's giving you the stat providing the stat is true right?

    upload_2020-10-15_18-36-58.png
     
    Loko the Tyke, Oct 15, 2020
    #141
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  2. Dav

    DavidCurriesMullet Well-Known Member

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    My mate works at Barnsley A&E said they've been told 111 have been in undated with calls with folk suffering with breathing problems and covid symptoms. They're panicking that they'll be overrun. You know my feelings on the governments handling of this but we're reaching potentially dangerous levels again.
     
    DavidCurriesMullet, Oct 15, 2020
    #142
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  3. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    I agree with have no plan, disturbingly so. We have destroyed mental health, are killing the economy, monopolising the NHS at a cost to every other condition, killing the arts and creative sector, ruining the hospitality trade, exponentially increasing unemployment and poverty and it gets branded as ‘protecting us’ it’s terrifying!
     
    Redstone, Oct 15, 2020
    #143
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  4. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a dig at you by the way, i just happened to have hit reply on your post with it being bottom. But I'm simply offering my perspective through my situation.

    My wife is in the highest risk category due to a chronic condition and we haven't left the house other than for walks at 5:30am and are staying well away from people as much as we are able.

    You might have some empathy how that sobers the mind somewhat. That should you inadvertently catch it, you are quite likely to kill your other half.

    Nothing about this is ideal. There is no perfect answer. And as someone who used to get on planes about 10 times a year and gad about all over at weekends and eat and drink out loads, yes, its tedious.

    But I'll still continue to shield and protect the woman I married rather than put her at risk.

    I know not everyones situation is such, and I understand that for some, death is highly unlikely, and for many they may not even know theyve had it. But many of the things I used to enjoy and the activities I'd do are of much lesser importance to me now than the flip side of losing a loved one and having to live with the notion that you are the only one to blame.
     
    DannyWilsonLovechild, Oct 15, 2020
    #144
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  5. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    So we lock the elderly up. Excellent start. The 7 million carers? Presumably them as well. As locking the elderly up and then exposing them to carers would be pretty pointless. Then of course we have NHS staff coming into contact with the vulnerable daily. Are we isolating them? If not then the locking the vulnerable down is pointless.
     
    Jimmy viz, Oct 15, 2020
    #145
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  6. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    And Toby blames the mayor, when every news bulletin I see is wall to wall local politicians shouting they have no influence on the government.

    but let’s not let clearly obvious facts get in the way when someone says something we want to hear.
     
    Donny-Red, Oct 15, 2020
    #146
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  7. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    For myself I think there’s really no easy answers. The tories are so utterly helpless and corrupt that they have backed us into a corner. The only practical ways would be to close all borders and hard lockdown for 2 weeks.

    Then stop giving billions to tory donors who haven’t seen clue what they are doing and set up a proper nhs test and trace system with local input.

    Go on a mass worldwide recruitment drive for medical staff.

    After 2 weeks open up completely let people lead normal lives. But be aware you may need to lockdown hard again. possibly around school holidays.

    Send the students home. Let them distance learn.

    End all the crapola schemes and introduce UBI.

    As for the stay at hone stuff that’s just blatant crap isn’t it. If I quit my job I don’t get UC so within weeks I’m starving and months I’m homeless
     
    Jimmy viz, Oct 15, 2020
    #147
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  8. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    They’re not though. Unless you’re calling c 20% a small number?
     
    Donny-Red, Oct 15, 2020
    #148
  9. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Isn't it that the strategy needs to be mitigation and not complete removal of the virus, as the latter is unachievable?

    So you lock everyone down. Cripple the whole economy. See poverty like I've never seen in my lifetime and hoped I would never see. Combined with businesses being gone forever and livelihoods smashed in to the abyss, meaning that suicide rates and domestic abuse cases rise exponentially.

    Or do you at least attempt to focus on some kind of segmentation that allows the above not to happen and protects as many of us as possible? Especially when coming out of lockdown doesn't guarantee you any kind of save haven from the virus as it is. Even in a second lockdown the care workers and the NHS staff are still at risk to the virus.

    It isn't easy or simple. But to rule it out when we're not given all of the facts, data, head space or salary, seems as flippant a rejection of the idea as it is the opposite is a solution.

    I'm happy for my Grandparents to do exactly what they've been doing for the last eight months if that keeps them safe. Home deliveries. Visitors outside and spaced apart. It's terribly sad, and seeing my Grandma have to say goodbye to her son earlier in the year from her own front room window was heart-breaking. But they're both safe and well.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Oct 15, 2020
    #149
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  10. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I don’t believe that long term lockdowns a a solution. I don’t believe that with this current govt there is any hope of a solution of any kind. Half arsed semi lockdowns are just death by a thousand cuts but the circuit breaker lockdown followed by a return to normality may be one pathway out. Though you may have to repeat this several time’s a year. You also need to recruit a lot of medical staff and set up a proper nhs track and trace system.

    possibly if the tories didn’t keep giving billions of our money to their mates then we could introduce UBI. That would at least be a positive in this **** show.

    Probably we will just rumble on in the worst of all possible worlds way because electing liars with no competence was not our brightest move.
     
    Jimmy viz, Oct 15, 2020
    #150
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  11. DEETEE

    DEETEE Well-Known Member

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    It was a false positive.

    Definitions

    COVID DEATHS - Deaths by ANY cause that have had a positive test within 28 days.

    HOSPITALISATION - being admitted to hospital for ANYTHING, within 14 days of a positive test, or a positive test whilst in hospital.

    PATIENTS IN VENTILATOR BEDS - This is occupied beds only. It does not mean the party in the bed is on a ventilator.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/about-data

    Issues with testing

    Are people getting tested when they don’t need to?
    Speaking in the House of Commons on 8 September, the health secretary for England, Matt Hancock, said that “about 25%” of tests were being used by asymptomatic and uninfected people. When questioned by The BMJ the Department for Health and Social Care said that “the figure came from internal track and trace research.” The spokesperson said, “There has been a spike in demand in recent weeks and the message is clear: only people with symptoms should be requesting a test.”


    https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3678

    False Results positive and negative

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext

    https://assets.publishing.serwas taken vice.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895843/S0519_Impact_of_false_positives_and_negatives.pdf


    Picking up dead virus in tests

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54000629

    Over sensitive tests

    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/09/01/covid-tests

    Used tests being reused

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54539328

    Some Stats

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1314663373880131584.html

    - By specimen date - the date the test was taken. Not the date it was processed/reported by the lab.

    - Reported hospital deaths frm today and the date they occured.

    top 40 highest number of positives per MSOA. See if you notice a pattern.

    - Local Authorities

    -risk of dying from Covid

    https://twitter.com/Jon_statistics/status/1316828179290640384 - Not pleasant reading

    https://twitter.com/Jon_statistics/status/1316479896173137926 - Give us a wave

    https://twitter.com/Jon_statistics/status/1316437973899055104 -London calling

    https://twitter.com/Jon_statistics/status/1316007911580147712 - NHS over reporting

    https://twitter.com/Jon_statistics/status/1315640844872019968/photo/1 - Areas with Covid cases over 100 per 100k Different look at it. Again see if theres a pattern...


    Lockdowns

    The Who

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...nization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688

    Local Lockdowns

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3912

    Tory MP resigning position

    https://twitter.com/CGreenUK/status/1316056810235797504

    Lockdown the old folk

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1314551428493574150


    Asymptomatic Carriers

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practice/three-quarters-of-people-with-flu-have-no-symptoms/
    https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/cbn/2005/cbnreport_103105.html - Covers a number of things especially around the epidemic in America at the time..
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...sible for,students not reporting any symptoms. - Common cold !




    Immunity

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-020-00808-x Quite difficult reading but it suggests that a lot of people wont suffer effects of C19 due to exposure to previous strains
    https://unherd.com/2020/10/matt-hancock-is-wrong-about-herd-immunity/?=frlh


    Japan

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/15/a-warning-from-japan/


    Track and Trace

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...e-alert-about-an-outbreak-in-a-venue-12099651 - get those pubs shut

    https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...-more-interactive-StopCovid-app-on-October-22 works in France...

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/varying-d...0z0vrNfZym65aH0vNfrWzwy7dHMJdhUTax3szAdVmloYD - other places T&T



    Ive got loads knocking about my history. But that should keep you going for a few hours. Ive kept away from the "right wing press" just to avoid the usual sneers...
     
    DEETEE, Oct 16, 2020
    #151
  12. DEETEE

    DEETEE Well-Known Member

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    Wait til you see where the idea for Moonshot came from and why.
     
    DEETEE, Oct 16, 2020
    #152
  13. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    THE most ridiculous suggestion I've ever read in my whole life, and the competition from the last six months is red hot. He's just another fc&#ing idiot to add to the list.
     
    Jay, Oct 16, 2020
    #153
  14. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    Was it from some illiterate Delroy eating his fried chicken?
     
    Fonzie, Oct 16, 2020
    #154
  15. ark

    ark104 (v2) Well-Known Member

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    I do have to pick up on this one point because I've seen it made a lot. Whilst I agree the app has lots of flaws my understanding is this can't happen. My understanding is that it is constantly pinging off other phones in the area to check your proximity and duration of contact. I've had 4 messages this week to say I was in a place where someone has had a positive result but I've not been at risk of exposure. So checking out isn't an issue.

    I do think if people want to go out and visit places they should have the app.
     
    ark104 (v2), Oct 16, 2020
    #155
  16. DEETEE

    DEETEE Well-Known Member

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    If only.

    Bliar Institute as a precursor to health passports.
     
    DEETEE, Oct 16, 2020
    #156
  17. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...COMMENT-DID-turn-crisis-epidemic-madness.html

    Boris has lost total control of his pro Tory rag. They have gone at him for a long time now but this latest article is the best yet. If you put somewhere in a tier you should tell them first what it will take to get out of it again. People struggle to pay bills on 100% of their wage so forcing them not to work and only giving them two thirds will bring about more poverty. The average age of a covid death is older than the average life expectancy.
     
    dreamboy3000, Oct 16, 2020
    #157
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  18. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Interesting stuff on here. Given some of the comments on the economies that have dealt most successfully with CV19
     
    Jimmy viz, Oct 18, 2020
    #158
  19. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    The same SAGE advice for a lockdown contained the following passage.
    'The evidence base into the effectiveness and harms of these interventions is generally weak. However, the urgency of the situation is such that we cannot wait for better quality evidence before making decisions.'
     
    Redstone, Oct 19, 2020
    #159
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