Labour - new leader and end of Brexit debate is NOT enough

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Young Nudger, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    I didnt mention Corbyn.

    I asked how you thought the government was doing and the first thing you said was But Corbyn.

    If you have a choice of two plumbers, and you choose one and he fcks the job up you hold him to account. You don't think, well at least I didn't let the other plumber do it. He would have been even worse.
     
  2. jedi one

    jedi one Well-Known Member

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    i asked guaged against what, other countries or a labour govt under corbyn or do you think having won the last election by a landslide as predicted he would have stepped down. so guaged against what ???????? and what would you have done different ?. what are you going to do about next weeks problem ? and to be fair looking at the cvs of the plumbers the 1st wouldnt have got a look in
     
  3. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    I'm not the PM.

    Neither is Jeremy Corbyn.

    I asked you whether or not the current government is doing a good job. It isn't a difficult question. Its a yes or no question if you simplify it greatly.

    All you've done is ask whether or not Corbyn would have done a better job - a Question that nobody can answer because it's speculation. He may have made a complete ******** of it for all I know - but he's got nothing to do with this.

    If you can't give me an answer to the question of whether the government has done a good job then that's fair enough. Just say so. But don't bring all this whataboutery into it.
     
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  4. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    The whataboutery is all Boflakes have.
     
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  5. jedi one

    jedi one Well-Known Member

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    thats true nobody can answer that question, he's not pm for a reason, and seeing as all you want to do is pull the govt down with offering a reasonable alternative to what they should or shouldnt have done, i think at the time they've done the best they can have with the hand they've been dealt, knowing then what they know now somethings may have been done differently, but thats all supposition, we'll never know. but what i do know is unless sks gets a grip then we could end up with boris drawing his pension in downing st
     
  6. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    They've done the best they can?

    Fair enough if that's your opinion I have to respect that - even if I don't agree.

    Personally, I think they've completely fcked up at every opportunity - right up to yesterday's news regarding the world beating track and trace app that they've abandoned after pumping in millions of pounds of public money.

    Each to their own though.
     
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  7. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    You really think they’ve done their best with the hand they’ve been dealt with, really? They’ve played a much bigger part in the hand they'd been dealt than you seem to acknowledge. The inactions of Govt. and ignoring of advice from foreign counterparts, for starters. The dithering, the incompetences, Wow just wow
     
  8. hav

    havana red1 Well-Known Member

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    The reasons why Johnson and his party now sit comfortably in power are multi-faceted: any media bias is only a part of this.
    Our roof is leaking and it needs replacing and fixing.
     
  9. jedi one

    jedi one Well-Known Member

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    what else could they have done ?
     
  10. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    There's not enough bandwidth on here to list all the mistakes.

    Just give this a read...

    https://appeasement.org
     
  11. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Plenty, before, put in place the findings of Operation Cygnus, tested people coming in from affected zones, locked down earlier. Procured more FFE, Stop making false promises and deadlines and targets they knew they couldn’t meet,adhere to their own rules, Jeez I could be here for ages,
     
  12. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    We had record number of people voting for labour last two elections .
    This didnt manifest into seats for one reason Brexit .
    I’m not going into the wrongs and rights over that debate it’s gone but I don’t envisage chucking the baby out .
    Survey after survey said labours policies other than Brexit shone through .
    Tory’s gained seats in previous labour strongholds because of Brexit but gained I other areas . If they had taken anti Brexit stance there’s a possibility they would have lost as many in other areas if not more .
    Not getting into debates of whether Being pro or against would have helped as that boat has sailed but the roofs not as leaky as the media would like you to believe .
    And as far as policy is concerned it depends on who’s doing the findings , if its Blairites Obviously they’ll blame the policies and the swing to the left.
    If it’s Momentum they’ll blame Brexit and Blairites.
    The crunch was the red wall imo and that was solely Brexit and immigration and rightly or wrongly voted Tory .
    The way they targeting the lowest yet again I can’t see the red wall turning blue next time .
    Lessons should be learned but not in a Spanish Inquisition.
     
  13. Gegenpresser

    Gegenpresser Well-Known Member

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    As someone who likes to think they have no particu
    I'm not sure that you can continue to flog, year after year, a mantra that basically states that joe average is so stupid that he gets swayed by the Daily Mail to vote Tory.

    We all have television, there's satellite and social media, your mates and family. It's not all one way traffic by any means. Media doesn't point one way.

    You use "media" like others use "Corbyn".

    Most of the media, rightly, jumps on everything that's done wrong.

    Every misstep the government have taken in this pandemic has been exposed. Even the Daily Mail does not make any excuses for them.

    Anyway, to continue to berate your fellow man for being too stupid to not know what you do, see what you see, is wrong.

    I'm all for arguments about the principles. And ready to be persuaded.
     
  14. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    The country is currently held to ransom by Johnson and his disgusting cronies. The only, unfortunately long term, current option for getting rid of them is Labour.
    Getting rid of them is absolutely paramount. If that means Labour have to make a few changes to get shut of them then that's what they need to do. I'd rather have two thirds of a cake than none.
     
  15. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Did I use the word stupid ?
    Think your trying to enhance a point here tbh.
    Some people ,not all are swayed by the media and comments on here about IRA sympathisers prove that.
    If the govt had been held to account with the same angst the media used against Corbyn they’d be out of office by now .
    You call it Berating I call it debating , let’s call the whole thing off .
     
  16. jedi one

    jedi one Well-Known Member

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    that has been my point all along me being a left wing facist or a right wing commie, corbyn and momentum left the country very little choice especially with the dithering over brexit, you cannot stick blindly to a cause you have to move with what the people want not what you tell them they want
     
  17. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    I agree , changes yes , wholesale Root and Branch no.
    For the reasons above .
     
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  18. Gegenpresser

    Gegenpresser Well-Known Member

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    Soz Marlon my internet went down.

    I suppose it's wrong to edit too much now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  19. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I’m sure 60k killed by CV19 many as a result of Government incompetence thank you for your choice.
     
  20. hav

    havana red1 Well-Known Member

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    Firstly I'm a fairly well educated professional and have a wealth of life experience so i'm not swayed by any media outlet. Everyone is working towards an agenda. I thus question everything I see and do my research and come to my own conclusions, preferably based on primary source evidence.
    You are clearly passionate about your politics and what you believe in.
    The Labour party however is fractious. There are too many elements within it.
    Firstly it's poor form to suggest that my opinion (as a socialist remaining nurse in the nhs) is based on media bias simply because it differs from yours.
    While suggesting the party is not really that fractious and dis-jointed you've actually managed to highlight certain key areas which suggest it is.
    Either way we aren't in a good position so there's no joy to be had here.
     

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