Labour Party MP Leavers

This is the whole problem with politics and politicians. They get elected on a platform of false promises and then when they get there they will do anything to stay there. It is time we had term limits for politicians.

 

What you're saying is ironic. You're criticising him for not allowing dissent in his own party, but also saying that he should implement only the views of party members who are majority Remain and ignore the views of the millions of Labour voters who were majority Brexit. It's an incredibily divisive and complex issue that transcends party lines as seen in the Conservative party.

I actually voted Remain btw.

 

The majority of people who voted remain were Labour voters. Not ironic at all. He doesn't allow dissent when he was the worst dissenter under past leaders, and he doesn't listen to his members either. He's consistent, I'll give him that. Though not a consistency that will stand him in good stead.

 

I doubt it will ever happen, but the only workable honest parliament I can ever see is if whipped voting is banned. That MP's can vote how they wish all the time and truly hold a govt to account. That may allow more scrutiny than is possible now. But its just ridiculous how it is. I'd also ban cameras in the commons and lords. I feel that's assisted populism (however marginal). Either way, we have an electorate that shouldn't be trusted, along with a government and main opposition that shouldn't be either.

 

What does a typical labour party voter want to happen in the next two years?

 

Over 150 of Labour's 250 odd seats are leave constituencies.

So you have to consider largely Remain MPs, Remain members vs majority Leave Constituencies being represented

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-maj...bour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/

 

What does a labour party voter want to happen in the next two years?

 

"we have an electorate that shouldn't be trusted"...

What does this mean??

 

It's self explanatory.

 

I think you should look up the history and meaning of "democracy" mate.

 

You tell me. I'm no longer a Labour voter.

 

I know what democracy is. Doesn't mean an electorate can't be as incompetent and lacking as the government they ultimately end up with.

 

The majority of Labour voters voted Remain. End of.

 

No not end of... Your totally wrong, pure and simple.

 

Sure. 16.1 million remain votes were from...ukip voters maybe? The fullfact figures are deeply speculative and pretty poorly put together in my view. We were told large numbers of people voted for the first time, and voted to leave. So where are they placed in the analysis? They should be in a subset considered "other". Seeing as they never voted, irrespective of how that area voted in a GE But instead they are somehow tagged on as labour voters.

But everyone will believe what they want to believe. That's the 2015 post truth.

 

Could I just put an alternative view? One of the few upsides of Brexit is that it should bring to an end the concept of the United Kingdom.

Stop shouting at me. Let me explain. The concept of the UK in its' present form is still relatively new. It was a hugely successful idea in the 20th Century. But unfit for purpose in the 21 Century simply because I don't believe you can continue to run a country of 60 million people from behind a couple desks in Whitehall. We are governed by a system which says a fat bloke in Westminster can decide how often your bins are to be emptied in Barnsley. It is ludicrous, undemocratic central control gone bonkers. In the North of England I'd like to have far more local control over those things that affect my life and my family's. And I don't mean the nonsensical devolution scraps that are thrown to the regions by the odd Govt in Westminster.

And here's the bit that matters. Westminster Govt will never give up this power easily. The only way I can see it happening is with the breakup of the UK - and that is surely going to happen isn't it? The Scots are not going to put up with this nonsense and are going to go their own way whether it is this year, 3 years or 5 years. The ridiculous farce that is Northern Ireland can't continue. The demographic shifts are pushing it back to a whole Ireland even if this Brexit shitstorm doesn't hasten the fact. So then you are left with England and the West Of England (sometimes called Wales when there is Rugby match on but a Country with basically the same values as England). I can't see how you can govern that UK remnant from Westminster. As soon as the North of England becomes the new Scotland i.e a Labratory to test all the crackers ideas coming from the Centre before imposing them on the places where people live(and matter) - London and the South East, then surely we are going to get off our knees and "take back control". By that I mean seek proper devolved Govt or we'll end up going the same way as Scotland.

Viva

 

For me, the only way Brexit would be a price worth paying is if London could become a republic and then rejoin the EU. I'd be very content for every area and region of the UK to fend for itself and have nobody else to blame for its state of affairs other than its residents and administrators.

 

Wow

 

I'm not sure you're arguments in this thread are going to help remain build a consensus...

 

There are other upsides. No longer part of the continuing (to fail) neo liberal economic structure; out of the bulling tendencies of the EU (to Greece, Portugal etc...), an essentially undemocratic structure (much like the UK).

I accept the downsides might appear a bit grim. More little Englander mentality which we could do without and having to leave a set of European institutions that have essentially stopped up killing ourselves by the million every few years. (It's a bit of a gamble that we'll stop doing that if the EU breaks up). And, of course 'freedom of movement'. If I could have voted to leave but to retain freedom of movement that would have been ideal, because without new streams of immigration we will be well an truly shagged. Can you imagine just relying on the current 'blood' to take the country forward!! Doesn't bear thinking about.