Lee wanting to sell his stake in the club.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Goldthorpe-Red, Jun 5, 2023.

  1. red

    redrum Banned Idiot

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    Pompey have a larger catchment area than us and bigger fan base.
     
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  2. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Well-Known Member

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    Or you'd have to drastically reduce you're out goings *wages*. Which would mean dropping down the leagues until a level was found.
     
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  3. S74 Red

    S74 Red Well-Known Member

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    The problem is it’s not really an ‘investment’ is it? The vast majority of people in club ownership lose money, it’s a Labour of love in most cases.

    Im sure Ashley for example remembers his time here fondly, and looks out for us etc. But it’s a huge leap from that to chucking away a big chunk of his wealth away to help us out.

    Was it Patrick or someone else who said when asked how you become a millionaire: “you start as a billionaire. Then buy a football club”!
     
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  4. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    What about Wycombe, Chesterfield, Exeter?
    All have done it in past, accept at a ‘lower’ level than us but it shows it can be done.
     
  5. Sim

    Simon De Montforte Well-Known Member

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    Bosman ruling killed off football clubs making a profit. Barring a couple of basket cases most clubs were run as a business and most made a profit back in the 60s and 70s. First club I can remember that ignored the balance sheet were Wolves who almost had the gates closed on them. Then Walker poured his millions into Blackburn with no concern about profit and others followed suit. The Crynes put a bit of money into Barnsley but also got some back in player sales. Be interesting to know what their net contribution was following the sale of the club.
     
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  6. Ste

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    upload_2023-6-6_11-20-4.jpeg
     
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  7. Dar

    Darfield138 Well-Known Member

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    I know a family member of the wards. Made a ton out of property development in the Cheshire footballers belt. I know he has affection for us, not sure that translates into ownership or if that ton is big enough for football when you're competing with the next club hell bent on busting themselves (Wigan etc) or sports washing/ laundering by kleptocrats. Personally I think to absolutely nail automatic next season will take about 6/7 million extra investment. Not a lot but It's then what do you do in the championship?
     
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  8. Merde Tete

    Merde Tete Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember reading that Ashley Ward's net worth is somewhere around £10 million. Plenty enough to ensure he and his kids never have to worry about money again, but not the sort of sum that will get you very far when it comes to running a football club.
     
  9. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Why would we have to do that? Salary is a proportion of revenue. We shouldn't be spending more on salary than we have coming into the Club, regardless of the ownership structure. Fan owned doesn't mean fans have to pay the wages.
     
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  10. MDG

    MDG Well-Known Member

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    If you are fan owned, who else would pay the wages?
     
  11. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    The revenue from all the income streams i.e. tv rights, gate receipts.

    Nobody should be bankrolling a football club.
     
  12. jptykes

    jptykes Well-Known Member

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    The income generated from gate receipts, TV deals, sponsorship, shirt and merchandising money etc etc.
     
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  13. red

    redrum Banned Idiot

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    How many clubs are making a profit or even breaking even year on year? I'd hazard a guess none in the championship and hardly any in league one.
     
  14. TitusMagee

    TitusMagee Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't make it right though, it just means that clubs are paying too much out on player wages and fees etc
     
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  15. MDG

    MDG Well-Known Member

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    So gate receipts and shirts + merchandising are fans funding
     
  16. MDG

    MDG Well-Known Member

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    Slightly different angle than my thinking as I was basing it on the same set of fans who may own a club would be the ones buying tickets, shirts and other items. So essentially it is all funded by the same set of fans other than sponsorship, tv etc.

    If we are talking about 100% fan ownership. I'd say a club our size would probably have a budget similar to middle of the road league 2 club. So we would be highly reliant on bringing young players through and probably wouldn't be able to sustain the academy costs we have now. I guess we would have to move to a smaller model all round.

    If we are talking about just getting fans representation on the board, it may be achievable to say target half of Chiens shares so giving a fans group around 15%. If the current board would allow a representative of that group to sit around the boardroom table, it gives at least a fans perspective on how the club is run. Say 3000 fans, we'd be looking at roughly £500 each. No idea if it's achievable though especially in this financial climate.
     
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  17. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I think there's generally a lot of misunderstanding around how community share offers and social enterprise works. In theory there's no reason why 100% shouldn't work. In its simplest definition, community ownership means owning share value in a company. No more or less than that. You can write any rule you want into the terms of a share offer, to protect the asset. The way the company is run, can remain completely unchanged. But the fans now have a legitimate voice, as they get AGM voting rights.

    But you're right, community ownership is realistically based on a model of self-sufficiency, because it probably means there's no 'sugar daddy' to bail the Club out, or fund routinely unrealistic fan demands on spending. This is where models like 50+1 come in (Germany), which is a hybrid of private and community ownership. If you look at Hearts, it was 100% fan owned, however there was one wealthy altruistic benefactor (Ann Budge) who made it happen. Doubt it would have happened without her. I don't think there are any other Clubs that are 100% fan owned and operating at a high level in the UK. They're almost always phoenix, protest or admin-threatened Clubs.

    My personal dream is to see Barnsley FC 100% fan owned and run as a social enterprise, with Oakwell protected under an ACV (Asset of Community Value). It would be completely self-sufficient, and any profits would be reinvested into the Club and community initiatives. I genuinely wouldn't care what division that's in. The joy I would get from my Club being run in this way, would far exceed anything else. That said, I realise I'm in a minority and this is just a pipe dream really. Bottom line is the majority of fans judge 'success' by league position and winning stuff, which costs a shed load of money. It's my opinion that many fans would happily see their Clubs bankrolled into crazy debt, to achieve this. It's a constant pressure to spend. But they quickly blame the owners when things go horribly wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2023
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  18. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Well-Known Member

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    Patrick and the current crowd put money in to keep us viable. if that money was to stop we would have to cut our cloth to fit. IE ...lower our main out goings (wage's) which sooner or later, I'd say sooner, would mean we drop down the leagues. Until a level of sustainability is found.
     
  19. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I'd argue we're a viable L1 club without additional financial support based on our average attendances being higher than most other clubs in this division and that most other clubs at this level don't receive additional financial support. I'd also argue, if we were well run, that promotion to the Championship is far from impossible, again based on our income from ticket sales.
     
  20. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    That may possibly happen. I value the way the Club is run more than league position though. I appreciate I'm probably in a minority.
     

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