Liverpool fans at it again with their lies and beging for pity

The people in charge had a duty of care

Whatever you may think about the actions of others, when we go to an event of any sort, we have a right to be looked after properly.

 

You also have...

</p>

....the obligation not to recklessly endanger the lives of others.</p>

The police set out that day to get everyone safely in and out of the ground. Hundreds of Liverpool supporters set out that day with the intention of getting pissed and forcing their way in.</p>

Now, with the extraordinary clarity of hindsight we're all absolutely certain that we wouldn't have opened the gates. We'd have let a handful get killed outside for the greater good of all because it's all so obvious now what was going to happen isn't it?</p>

**** me sideways. </p>

 

Can you please just stop perpetuating the lies of The Sun and senior SY Police for today at least nt

 

people have lost family members

It's only natural they'll want to blame someone.</p>

There were lots of factors that lead to the tradgey including how some fans behaved, but the fact remains that the police took a decsion to open the gates and did nothing to deal with the concequences, i,e. directing people away from the central pens. If the gates had remained closed, then the police would have had a different incident to deal with ... but they didn't have the man power so they chose the easy option, don't control the crowd, let anarchy take over</p>

The police chosethe easiestcourse of action and so you can't be too surprised that people are upset that nobody has been held responsible for the outcome of that course of action ... how would you feel? </p>

The fact that the police didn't let most of the ambunces that were sat outside the ground (in my opinion) more than likely contributed to the death toll. The inquest afterwards summised that most of those who had died were already dead by the time the ambulances arrived. Ifthe inquesthadn't made that assumption then that particular police action would have had them answering to a public enquiry ... which is what the Liverpool fans want, somebody to be held to account and a judge/jury to decided if they have charges to answer. Personally I think that the assumption (that eveyone had died when they chose not to let the ambulances come to their aid) saved the police from facing a public enquiry, and it's EXTREMELY generous to the police,it's a whitwash andthe police got off on a technicality.</p>

I think the vicitims familiesHAVE been denied their day in court, and questions haven't been fully answered, because the enquiry was never held. The assumption therefore is that the police have more to hide ... and without an enquiry, that question will (rightly or wrongly) always hang over them.</p>

I don't think it's fair to entirely blame the police, but it's completely fair to say they haven't been held to account for their actions. They certainly made mistakes, but I'm sure the individuals who made those mistakes will still have nightmares about it.</p>

Tomorrow we'll all have another subjectspout on about and shout our own personal wisdom on the subject. Those who have lost loved ones will still have the pain of their loss, and it will still be an ongoing part of their lives ... so lets afford them a little simpathy and allow them to be mad at the world, because as the article you quoted ends, nobody has been held to account for the loss of their loved ones ... and I know I wouldn't shut up if god forbid I was in their situation.</p>

 

Were you there? nt

 

RE: Were you there? nt

Both have admitted lying to try and shift the blame for the disaster on to the fans. SYP senior officers changed the statments of junior officers before the inquiry. The lord justice Taylor Report exhonerated the fans from any blame for the cause of the disaster. Policing was one of a series of interconnected facotrs that caused the disaster. So what evidence other than your opinion do you have to the contary? and why are you using the day to remember the victims as an opprtunity to peddle prejudice against a city and its people?

 

when you watch the TV footage ...

There is a distinct lack of police helping the injured and the dying, whatever the rights and wrongs of the fans or the police prior to opening the gates. The police did very little once the disatater was underway.</p>

The fans carrying people on advertising signs as makeshift stretchers ... that's because the rescue services were stood outside being prevented from getting in by the police. Where are the police in the aftermath? </p>

 

RE: Were you there? nt

Both have admitted lying to try and shift the blame for the disaster on to the fans. And which of these lies am I perpetuating?</p>

SYP senior officers changed the statments of junior officers before the inquiry. Which of these changed statements do you perceive me to be supporting?</p>

The lord justice Taylor Report exhonerated the fans from any blame for the cause of the disaster. That's up to him. Clearly we have different ideas as to what cause means.</p>

Policing was one of a series of interconnected facotrs that caused the disaster. So what evidence other than your opinion do you have to the contary? We're back to defining cause. They failed to stop it. I believe those who set out to get pissed and break into the ground caused it.</p>

and why are you using the day to remember the victims as an opprtunity to peddle prejudice against a city and its people? Total ******** and you know it. I hold that the blame lies with a thuggish few. I could ask you why you're using it to peddle prejudice against the police.</p>

You need to calm down and think before going off on one like that.</p>

 

The police made a lot of mistakes that day. nt

 

"Hundreds of Liverpool supporters set out that day with the intention of getting pissed and forcing their way in." The only place this view appears is in the accounts of the SY Police and in the media that chose to carry the message. Therefore if your view contradicts all the evidence except the now discredited evidence of of SY Police then it is perpetuating that view.

The unprecedented step was tken in the aftermath to take blood smaples from ALL the dead including children as part of the promotion of myth that the fans were drunk and had caused the disaster. Fortunately the blood tests didn't support the myth, although the fact they were even taken is inexcusable.

There is no evidence that people got pissed and had a view to break in to the ground. that is your opinion and I can't seem to establish on what its based other than conjecture?

I have no bone to bear with the police in general. The argument centering on the opening of the gate is a focal point which unforunately draws away from the real issue which was the complete dereliction of care shown in preparing for the game. The bottle neck Leppings Lane had experienced a crush in previous semi-finals - this was ignored. Duckenfield deemed it necessary to only visit the ground for one game prior to being in charge of the match. Unacceptable. No filter systme was put in place as per previous years to guide fans in the right direction. The central pens where already full before the gates where opened and despite warning Duckenfiled ignored it. Having ordered the opening of the gates he told the FA and the press that liverpool fans had forced them open. Ambulances were prevented from entering the ground. The response to the disaster was uncoordinated beyond the point of negligance.

The reason I'm angry is because i did my dissertation on Hillsboro and specifically why people have been so ready to rewrite the truth and blame the fans. i've talked to people who were there across all sectors, studied the evidence, press, police reports etc, yet still people will dismisively say it was pissed fans trying to get in without a ticket without bothering to look at any of the evidence

 

I'd like to say R.I.P to all the innocent fans that died that day but

am wondering if the nameless Liverpool fans who contributed to their deaths are feeling the remorse, shame and guilt that they should

 

For god sake give it a break

you have no shame , that is a given but at least keep it to yourself
ie keep your mouth shut and let us suspect you are a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt

 

Too many people (without tickets) and too few police (or rather too few competant policemen). I don't think Windy or any of usare trying to blame scousers in general or the whole of the police force, Many people were to blame from the groundstaff, police and the fans. The point I am trying to make is that SOME Liverpool fans were partly to blame but we never hear this do we?

 

RE: I'd like to say R.I.P to all the innocent fans that died that day but

well said

 

The reason the fans were not to blame

is because

a) there were no more non-ticket holders than there would be at any such occasion (as was pointed out in the inquiry)
b) there are always non-ticket holders at big games. Duckenfiled was told of this. the police should have expected non-ticket holders and have been prepared.
c)The crush ouside Leppings Lane was due to slow processing of fans through antiquated turnstiles and fans arriving late due to delays on public transport and motorways, not non-ticket holders.
d) there weren't too many in the ground but too many in the central pens. The side pens were not clearly marked by SWFC and the police failed to close off the central pens once full.

 

You keep your mouth shut.

I have no interest whatsoever in what a lowlife like you thinks of me.
So to quote you "keep your mouth shut and let us suspect you're a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt".
What i put was my opinion on the incident and i am entitled to express this whether a weirdo like you agrees with it or not.
Go and do something more productive like finding a better looking woman to photograph for Readers Wives or go out and buy a new pair of running shoes

 

RE: The reason some fans could be to blame

Because they were there the year before and some got in without tickets? and tried it again but in larger numbers. Don't think anyone did a head count but to me on the documentary and in the pics there looks to be a hell of a lot of fans in the whole of that stand not just in the central bit. I knew someone who lived near the ground on the day and the streets were litteraly full off Liverpool fans, she said she'd never seen the Hillsboro area so busy. RIP 96.

 

This getting a bit silly.

Are you trying to say there weren't ticketless, drunken &quot;fans&quot; trying to force their way in or that they didn't set out to do so? Either is ballocks. That's my view, not a perpetuation of anyone else's.</p>

I don't recall anyone trying to say those who diedwere the ones responsible for the crush. I don't know which is more pointless - the taking of the blood samples or you bringing it up.</p>

I don't doubt there were many contributory factors and I've repeatedly agreed that the police made many mistakes but if you've set out to get me (or anyone else who lives in the real world) to agree that this dreadful incident would have occurred had a hoard of &quot;fans&quot; not tried to force their way in then you better get comfy mate.</p>

 

As usual

opinion based on no facts.
You can only live your life for so long like that then you get found out , you have proven that on here before.
Go and give your opinion to a liverpool fan who knows the true facts .to his/her face

 

RE: As usual

I have read everything that is available on this matter and formed my opinion from that, so to presume otherwise that's plain ignorance on your part (once again)
Care to mention what you think 'i have been found out on before'????? Not the Graham Linstead saga again?
Once again you made a presumption about me that was wrong, as you were not to know that my brother-in-law is a Liverpool fan and of course we have discussed the issues.
As for true facts we can all only base our opinions on that day from what we have heard from fans who were there, Taylor Report and the press reports. From this people still have conflicting opinions but that is life.