LJ asks for ironic chants to stop.

Couldn't agree more - 2nd half at Wigan when the chorus of "how **** must you be" began for the third or fourth time I said to my son that I wished they'd stop with that bloody song and enough is enough - especially given the performance we were witnessing ! Beggars belief!

 

"You wonder why on Earth there is an under 23 tournament in the middle of January when most players will be playing at their clubs at their age."

Presumably because it is an Asian championship that doesn't revolve around English League 1 seasons.

 

Personally I do not work in an audience based business.

If my work performance isn't up to scratch my gaffer will have a word with me and tell me to buck my ideas up.


Pro footballers and other sportsmen who play in front of a paying audience cannot be compared to the average working man or woman.

 

Are we all on the same side? Do we all want the same thing, more Long Term victories? Because if we were LJ would have stepped aside a long time ago, he must know deep down he isnt up to it...


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I had a chat with de Zeeuw after the we're going to win 6-5 song and he said the team thought it was hilarious. Maybe footballers who live in a cocoon re a bit more precious these days.

 

Who said they were ironic ? !!

 

That's the difference between men and boys.

 

We'll sing what we want
We'll sing what we want
Apart from "We're gobshite"
We'll sing what we want.

 

And good players who have confidence in themselves and others who don't.

 

Where in that song does it say we're ****? In fact, what in that song is disparaging to the team in any way?

There is some irony in it, we didn't think we were going to win 6-5, but we were still singing positive songs. The song that Lee Johnson refers to specifically states that we are ****. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. None.

And neither the captain nor the manager are being precious. One says he doesn't believe it's helpful the other that it doesn't have the lads buzzing. To address what the manager and the captain have actually said rather than accuse them of something they haven't displayed, do you think the song is helpful? Do you think it helps us win football matches? Do you think the team should be buzzing when their own supporters call them ****?

 

What does it really matter? It's 22 men kicking a bag o wind abart, with lots more (mainly) men using a load of wind talking about it.

It's ****ing inconsequential. He doesn't like the songs, so what? Win some games, they will stop, lose more you'll keep hearing it. At the end of the day life goes on.

 

The fans singing the song are just stating facts in it. The truth obviously hurts.

 

Of course there are more important things to talk about. But you waste as much time talking ballacks on here as I do, so let's not suddenly pretend we're all deep and meaningful and above this. We're not, we are this shallow.

 

They've never said it hurts. You're claiming that but they have neither done nor said anything that suggests it does. They're saying it's unhelpful. If they think it is (and singing songs is all about trying to cajole your team) why would a supporter of that club want to carry on being unhelpful even if they think the team are ****? I think they've been **** a lot of the time this season. No one is disputing that. But I don't think telling them so while they're trying to win a game is very helpful. Do you?

 

They are both from the same vein of self depreciating humour are they not? There's been many examples over the years from 'Perason for England' to 'It's just like watching Ryhill'

In terms of taking any notice of individual components of songs I'd expect the team to be concentrating on the game and only be able to hear the songs as background noise.

It's not like we created a self fulfilling prophecy is it? We didn't start singing songs about them being **** and then they suddenly became ****. I remember much better teams and better players getting a much harder ride for much better performances. The vitriol aimed at Mad Mel back in the day would have had LJ running home to his momma.

It's a bit of a non issue for me to be honest. I don't think any individual footballer should ever be abused n the course of their job. I'd never join in singing such a song and I sit in the East Stand these days so only raise my voice to complain about the rapscallions in the Ponty waking me up from my slumbers. At the same after performances such as the Altrincham which is the worst I've seen us ever play (Bromsgrove x10) I can understand the need for an outlet and some gallows humour. Bringing attention to it by managers and players is just daft. The way to stop it is play well and win a game or two occasionally.

It does not in itself demonstrate the cocooned world that those involved in football live in but is symptomatic of a sea change from a game watched and played by people who inherit the same world with the same brand of humour to a world in which players think they are 'special human beings' to quote the great sage.

I think the team should stop being **** then it wouldn't matter. Just a thought.

 

That's the crux of the matter. The players and manager are not up to the task.

Anything else is just deflecting away from this.

 

You've still not managed to address what either of the two interviewed have said. You've stated that you wouldn't think players notice the individual components of songs, but they obviously can because Alfie Mawson has referred to it.

Back to what they actually said. Lee Johnson doesn't think the song is helpful. Do you? Alfie Mawson states it doesn't get the players buzzing. Do you think calling them **** would get them buzzing?

Rather than infer a cocooned world and a disparity between the life of a footballer and the life of a fan, none of which is actually there in what the two men have said, do you believe what they have actually said is wrong? They're not saying don't, they're not saying you can't, they're not saying it's unfair criticism, they're not saying their feeling have been hurt, they're just saying it doesn't help and they would prefer more positive songs. When we all want Barnsley to win games - players, managers, fans, the board, everyone connected with the club - I can't see anything wrong with one component in the whole set up telling another that a particular aspect of what they are doing isn't helpful. We're all supposed to be pulling together, what's wrong with telling us that? We criticise the manager and the players all the time and tell them what they're doing wrong.

The only people being sensitive and precious about this whole episode is actually the fans. "How dare they tell us what we can and can't sing! All the money we pay! It's absolutely outrageous!" If you step back a bit mate and have a look, compare the measured response from Johnson and Mawson to the hysteria that their comments have provoked, it's quite funny. And there's the real irony.

 

Let's say their not, given they are the players and manager we do have and our fortunes are directly related to their performance, and they say it would be more helpful to them if we didn't sing that they are ****, then doesn't it make sense not to do so? Whether that makes them weak, boys or whatever is immaterial. Like it or not they are representing our club and we all want to win. Even if we don't think it makes a difference, if they think it might then isn't it worth doing? Or is it more important that we get to sing they are ****.

 

I get all that Jay but I think it would have been better had they just said that they are sorry the songs are necessary and they'll try and convince us to sing more positively in future by making their performances better. Along with a line that they appreciate our travelling fans and that they understand that we have to keep our spirits up somehow. They could have even got us further on side by making an ironic joke themselves saying that they felt like joining in at times etc. (this probably would not have helped)

 

Personally, I don't think either should have commented. Not because what they said was wrong, but because football fans are notoriously precious and sensitive, what both Johnson and Mawson are being accused of when they're displaying no such thing, and they should have known the reaction they would get. I think the reaction they're getting is way over the top, but it was always going to happen.