Might have been done elsewhere but today's "protest2"

churtonred · Feb 13, 2022

Loko the Tyke said: ↑

Problem probably stems from the use of Conway Out and the fact that campaign started with a notion that a new ownership group was waiting in the wings. Not many people are 'Conway In', on any platform, but very few in the total fan base are 'Conway Out' without some form of reassurances or clarity on what the result of achieving that objective means. Or clearer explanations of why it should be 'Conway Out' and the reasons for it.

Some supporters articulate that perfectly on here, and online elsewhere, but that's never been the headline messages coming from the group. I think that has stopped people coming on the journey with them.
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It's about time bridges were built Loko. I fully appreciate you got loads of unwarranted stick on the FB group from the predictable idiots that inhabit it. The collapse of the supposed poster protest on Saturday was probably partly to do with the shambles of their organising ability and the antipathy between various groups.
The bottom line though is that most people recognise that there are fundamental things wrong at the club and unless various groups come together one those things will continue unchallenged.

Marc · Feb 13, 2022

Sheriff said: ↑

I'm a regular on this site and I'm in the Conway Out group, primarily out of interest in its original aims, but subsequently becoming less and less convinced that it's going to achieve them, so yesterday's outcome wasn't a surprise to me, but not something I take any enjoyment from (so quite the polar opposite to the on-field situation!)

I read the various threads on there last night, which were a bit of a post-mortem on the group so far. Luke has decided to step back from being the public face, as it's impacting on his personal life, and the other main guy was frustrated that they'd only received two offers of help with leaflet distribution. There's a fair amount of internal acrimony on there about the campaign, none of which I'm particularly interested in. However, it will be interesting to see what happens with the group moving forward, as a consequence of those events.

I think the failure of the poster protests yesterday was primarily down to organisation and communication, much of which has been discussed already. However, it probably also didn't take into account the fact that a good number of those most likely to align with the views of the group are those currently not attending games, so many of the people it needed to be successful were simply not there yesterday. There's also a good deal of people, again as recent threads show, who can't currently align with the group, for various reasons. Some don't like the Conway focus, some are caught up in the division that the group has generated (when what's needed is an alignment of fan groups, not a factionalisation of them), some don't like the nature of the protests that have taken place since it was set up (whether or not they were a factor in this), etc, etc.

Rather than take any enjoyment out of the protest 'failure' (and, to clarify, I'm not accusing anyone of doing so) it's probably a good point in time for everyone to assess how we might be able to turn a disparate mixture of campaigning across several groups/forums into something more effective and co-ordinated. The group has managed to achieve something tangible, which is to establish links with fans of other clubs within the ownership portfolio and create some initial unity with them.

Putting aside the 'noise' around it (e.g. the Martin Nettleton thing) I think the big missed opportunity so far was the expectation management around the event at the Garrison, the original intention of which was supposed to provide an 'introduction/background' regarding the potential investors, but which became something quite different, and thereby raising further doubts about their existence among some followers. These doubts around the potential investors are probably the biggest factor holding things back at present from gaining a wider groundswell of support, albeit I retain the view that any serious investor should be approaching the owners directly to establish the likelihood of a deal, and there's no evidence to suggest that this has taken place to date.

Many of us supporters have a 'natural home' with regard to following BFC, but in reality we don't fit into a single category of these supposed warring factions. For example, my 'natural home' is the BBS, but I'm a lifetime member of BFCST, a member of the Conway Out group and an occasional lurker on other forums and Facebook groups. I'm also doing my own #NAPM campaign for entirely personal reasons, as are a number of others, which I believe is the most effective form of protest available to effect a change of ownership, but which I've said previously isn't something I expect will gain widespread support.

The key question is how do we most effectively combine all our varying levels of dissatisfaction with the ownership in the most effective way possible? (and I ask this secure in the knowledge that there are no easy answers). Ultimately, we are a group of, say, 15,000 supporters who potentially would attend games either as ST holders or via the odd match here and there. None of the 'group badges' that exist fully capture or represent this entire group, but to have an effective voice we need become something that comes as close as possible to doing so.

There's plenty of work to be done to achieving this, but today feels like a particularly relevant point to start doing so, from whichever 'badge' anyone currently aligns themselves with.
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Really well put.

Loko the Tyke · Feb 13, 2022

churtonred said: ↑

It's about time bridges were built Loko. I fully appreciate you got loads of unwarranted stick on the FB group from the predictable idiots that inhabit it. The collapse of the supposed poster protest on Saturday was probably partly to do with the shambles of their organising ability and the antipathy between various groups.
The bottom line though is that most people recognise that there are fundamental things wrong at the club and unless various groups come together one those things will continue unchallenged.
Click to expand...

You're talking to me like I wouldn't agree though?

I'm in full agreement on that. I'm also allowed to comment independently on why I think it didn't work - which is all I've been doing here. No criticism of anyone involved and no strong words like you've used here. There's only so much coming together you can do with a group so disconnected from the rest in terms of access.

Kingtyke · Feb 13, 2022

horsforthtyke said: ↑

I walked down from Brinckman Street. Never got offered a poster. Sat in ESU very few people near me had one and those who did didn't have a clue what to do with them (or when to do whatever they were supposed to do). Rule 1 of protest - get organised no?
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Protest was season ticket holders staying away in their thousands by the looks of empty seats. Best way to Protest too in my opinion

churtonred · Feb 13, 2022

Loko the Tyke said: ↑

You're talking to me like I wouldn't agree though?

I'm in full agreement on that. I'm also allowed to comment independently on why I think it didn't work - which is all I've been doing here. No criticism of anyone involved and no strong words like you've used here. There's only so much coming together you can do with a group so disconnected from the rest in terms of access.
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No, I wasn't criticising you at all Loko. Far from it. It was more aimed in your direction because, from what I can see the only credible counterweight to the board is the supporters trust.

Red CB · Feb 13, 2022

Jay said: ↑

Odd that you seem to know so many people who buy tickets to something they don't intend to go to.
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Plenty of us did that last season did we not ?

TitusMagee · Feb 13, 2022

.

KamikazeCo-Pilot · Feb 13, 2022

Sheriff said: ↑

I'm a regular on this site and I'm in the Conway Out group, primarily out of interest in its original aims, but subsequently becoming less and less convinced that it's going to achieve them, so yesterday's outcome wasn't a surprise to me, but not something I take any enjoyment from (so quite the polar opposite to the on-field situation!)

I read the various threads on there last night, which were a bit of a post-mortem on the group so far. Luke has decided to step back from being the public face, as it's impacting on his personal life, and the other main guy was frustrated that they'd only received two offers of help with leaflet distribution. There's a fair amount of internal acrimony on there about the campaign, none of which I'm particularly interested in. However, it will be interesting to see what happens with the group moving forward, as a consequence of those events.

I think the failure of the poster protests yesterday was primarily down to organisation and communication, much of which has been discussed already. However, it probably also didn't take into account the fact that a good number of those most likely to align with the views of the group are those currently not attending games, so many of the people it needed to be successful were simply not there yesterday. There's also a good deal of people, again as recent threads show, who can't currently align with the group, for various reasons. Some don't like the Conway focus, some are caught up in the division that the group has generated (when what's needed is an alignment of fan groups, not a factionalisation of them), some don't like the nature of the protests that have taken place since it was set up (whether or not they were a factor in this), etc, etc.

Rather than take any enjoyment out of the protest 'failure' (and, to clarify, I'm not accusing anyone of doing so) it's probably a good point in time for everyone to assess how we might be able to turn a disparate mixture of campaigning across several groups/forums into something more effective and co-ordinated. The group has managed to achieve something tangible, which is to establish links with fans of other clubs within the ownership portfolio and create some initial unity with them.

Putting aside the 'noise' around it (e.g. the Martin Nettleton thing) I think the big missed opportunity so far was the expectation management around the event at the Garrison, the original intention of which was supposed to provide an 'introduction/background' regarding the potential investors, but which became something quite different, and thereby raising further doubts about their existence among some followers. These doubts around the potential investors are probably the biggest factor holding things back at present from gaining a wider groundswell of support, albeit I retain the view that any serious investor should be approaching the owners directly to establish the likelihood of a deal, and there's no evidence to suggest that this has taken place to date.

Many of us supporters have a 'natural home' with regard to following BFC, but in reality we don't fit into a single category of these supposed warring factions. For example, my 'natural home' is the BBS, but I'm a lifetime member of BFCST, a member of the Conway Out group and an occasional lurker on other forums and Facebook groups. I'm also doing my own #NAPM campaign for entirely personal reasons, as are a number of others, which I believe is the most effective form of protest available to effect a change of ownership, but which I've said previously isn't something I expect will gain widespread support.

The key question is how do we most effectively combine all our varying levels of dissatisfaction with the ownership in the most effective way possible? (and I ask this secure in the knowledge that there are no easy answers). Ultimately, we are a group of, say, 15,000 supporters who potentially would attend games either as ST holders or via the odd match here and there. None of the 'group badges' that exist fully capture or represent this entire group, but to have an effective voice we need become something that comes as close as possible to doing so.

There's plenty of work to be done to achieving this, but today feels like a particularly relevant point to start doing so, from whichever 'badge' anyone currently aligns themselves with.
Click to expand...

Very well expressed. Balanced and a good overview

Donny-Red · Feb 13, 2022

Archerfield said: ↑

If supporting the club now means supporting the current owners then I’ll wait until some better ones come along.
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I’m not an expert on philosophy, but what if we believe that supporting the team doesn’t mean supporting the current owners?
What if it’s the football and the community spirit that many of us are supporting.

indeed; logically, the only alternative to supporting the club with these owners is to support a different owner, but that doesn’t appear to be an actual physical possibility at this time.

Archerfield · Feb 13, 2022

@Donny-Red That’s why I firmly believe in each to their own.

My alternative is to not support billionaires on their experiment of football club ownership.

Marc · Feb 13, 2022

churtonred said: ↑

It's about time bridges were built Loko. I fully appreciate you got loads of unwarranted stick on the FB group from the predictable idiots that inhabit it. The collapse of the supposed poster protest on Saturday was probably partly to do with the shambles of their organising ability and the antipathy between various groups.
The bottom line though is that most people recognise that there are fundamental things wrong at the club and unless various groups come together one those things will continue unchallenged.
Click to expand...

in theory I definitely agree. however, we know for fact that the ST have held the olive branch on several occasions, without much joy coming the other way, so i'm not sure how much more they should be expected to do. I guess another angle might be, if this group to build bridges with are indeed a fringe minority of disgruntled fans with no plan to actually make a difference...realistically, how much does it matter either way? maybe the two groups should just need to agree to ignore each other?

and just for clarity, I'm not a member of either the FB group or BFCST

Might have been done elsewhere but today's "protest2"

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Might have been done elsewhere but today's "protest2"

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