Might stir up a sh*tstorm with this one but here goes....

They’ve already granted themselves one.

Johnson has said he won’t take it (not sure how we could check if he’s lying) and ministers have refused to say they won’t be taking it.

 

What’s to negotiate if the Govt say they’re going to implement a pay freeze across the Public Sector?
Your lack of knowledge about this again comes to the fore as otherwise you’d be aware that this isn’t the first thing the Union leadership have done and they haven’t simply made a knee-jerk reaction. There is a petition available to sign which was launched a few weeks ago about pay in the Civil Service. There is always consultation and feed-back from rank and file via their branches about pay and other issues. Ultimately it is the rank and file members who will decide via a Ballot if Strike or any other form of industrial action is to be taken. Big stick my arse, it is the Govt who are wielding the big stick if they impose a pay freeze on who they have described as the 4th Emergency Service.

 

And yet on the clip that was posted with Piers Morgan, Hancock said he couldn’t commit to saying he wouldn’t accept a pay rise as it hasn’t yet been ratified or something along those lines

 

They reckon that in real terms since the various freezes on Public Sector pay were first
introduced circa ten years ago, contrary to claims by HM Government, the wages of
Public servants have fallen well below those of their Private Sector counterparts.
I've personally not seen any stats that prove/disprove that claim.

If as rumoured, any freeze that might be announced exempts Doctors, nurses and
front line NHS staff that's got to be a good thing. As a former Public servant I know from
personal experience, that the strikes that were called in the past, were futile.


When I first went into Local Government in the late 60's, having left the Transport and General
Workers Union which was quite a militant Union, I joined NALGO ( National Association of Local Government Officers)
which is now known as UNISON. As we didn't have a Shop Steward in the department I put myself forward and was
elected. I was then asked to attend a three day training course.

On the first day, the tutors openly stated that in most management circles the Union was known as a "paper tiger".
They went on to explain that without any disrespect a large proportion of the total workforce was made up of
females many of whom were married. As far as the latter were concerned, their husband was the main breadwinner
and what they earned went to supplement their joint income. I thought that the statement that was made was very
sexist, but once back in the office and on the job, numerous female colleagues in our office seemed to confirm those claims.
The majority thought that the pay they earned was quite generous and in the main most were reticent to take strike
action in case it led to redundancy.

During my time as a Shop Steward and in the intervening thirty years that followed, I never witnessed any call to
strike enjoy any success. The usual action that was agreed, was either to work to an actual job description i.e work
to rule, or selected days of action. The latter involved agreed dates when all Union members stayed at home whilst
some of their number formed a picket line at the start of the working day to try and persuade non Union colleagues
not to go in to work. The success of this strategy was mixed. After circa four selected days of action, you were lucky
if the Union managed to negotiate anything above a rise above 2%. I don't think UNISON will call for strike action
but might try to get their membership to agree to selected days of action. It will be interesting to see how the rank
and file react given that a lot of them are working from home anyway.

 

I agree with quite a bit of what you say there. However, in case of DWP, a pay freeze would see many members of staff on National Living Wage come next April. These members have long service and their roles include dealing with individuals and their families finances and generally decision making that effects the public purse. No disrespect to anyone out there on minimum wages but flipping burgers for example does not command the same rate. Staff are fed up of this and many are talking of leaving and/ or taking a vastly reduced Pension earlier than they would ‘ve liked. No one wants to strike, however I do get the feeling that a ballot this time would get more than the 50% turn out required for the result to be Legal. Oh, and in recent past ballots where turn out has been less than 50% the vote for Industrial action has been quite overwhelming. This is the straw that broke the Camel’s back for me and have decided to retire. I am able to do this because of my Mineworkers Pension because believe me the Civil Service Pension is truly poor

 

.

 

IIRC the NHS is 'exempt' because their pay negotiation had already been settled some time ago (for next year) and a rise was previously agreed.

 

When I worked as a Logistics Manager it was frowned upon for Management to be union members.
My attitude was to join the GMB and once suggested that to stop none union members from benefitting from union negotiated pay awards that only union members got it.....ah wernt popular in some circles...

 

You also chose your career so thought titty get on with it

 

Who was it that once said "there is no such thing as society!"

 

Didn't realise that Civil Service pay had fallen so far behind TT. My experience was limited to Local Government.
I was a Clerical Officer in the Civil Service in the late sixties in London and Leeds and recall that after paying rent
and travelling to get home to Donny at weekends there wasn't much left over.

 

Wasn't it the 'Devil's Handmaiden' Thatcher? She set about trying to make it come true and damn near succeeded.

I know the Crown is a fictional series and as with all fiction series based on fact it is frustrating trying to separate the content which true and that which is there for dramatic effect, and whilst Gillian Anderson's portrayal of her is a bit OTT and more of a caricature, if only half of what she comes across as is accurate then words fail me. Her ideology was fundamentally flawed and worse, whilst her 'cabinet' at the outset made noises, none of them had the backbone to really stand up to her excesses even when it was abundantly clear she was on the wrong path. Of course she did quite quickly replace any dissenters with sychophants. ... the reports about the humiliation of Geoffrey Howe in Cabinet meetings and the famous line from Healey who said that an attack from Howe was "like being savaged by a dead sheep".. Only 'Tarzan' Heseltine showed any real integrity and stood up to her and many of her policies ultimately leading to him challenging her in a leadership contest, Having the Whip withdrawn after saying he would vote For the Lib Dems and resigning over the Westland affair. Whatever one thinks of his politics he had integrity which is increasingly rare amongst the Upper echelons of the Conservatives.

 

Marlon if you look at all my posts I don't think I've ever really been argumentative everyone has their own agenda so have no issues with that. I have been in a union in the past but have been self employed for 37 years if I don't work I don't earn I don't agree that women and kids would be still down the pits (that was tounge in cheek) I'm born and bred in Barnsley, all my dads family were miners my experiences were my own not read in papers I'm not against unions I just don't like them when they were controlling the country. Do youhave to toe the line to be a member on this site

 

That's Mrs Thatcher I believe

 

I think that the problem with Anderson's portrayal is the way she speaks so slowly. It's as if she has had a stroke, which of course she did but not until 20 years later. The point about the quote was that she endorsed an economic world which some would say emphasized self-reliance and others simply selfishness. However they have tried to mask it I don't think the Tories have ever moved away from that, and the present government is demonstrably riddled with sleaze and self-interest. So I don't think your opposition to strike action based on morality and social conscience can gain much traction - especially since there has been little respite from a decade of pay freezes and austerity already. I doubt however that union members will vote for strike action. With inflation where it is at the moment any cost of living-based rise would be a prize not worth the fight. By my reckoning, two days of lost pay would offset a CPI-based rise!

 

Wasn't Thatcher (like Reagan) already suffering from the onset of dementia while in office?

 

According to Wiki she seems to have been active in public life up until 2002, when it was announced she would undertake no more speaking engagements. Her daughter revealed Thatcher was suffering from dementia in 2005.

 

Did you have a choice of whether you worked though or not? - Probably not

If you were furloughed did you see a reduction of income - Yes, many struggled.

If you managed to keep working through lockdown you are one of the lucky ones, don't go putting more of a burden of the unlucky.

 

Billions!