Minority Report v Birmingham City

Correct. That's just for territory. A team can rack up 100 points by giving the ball to Brad Collins and. Doing nothing else for 90 minites

 

I was introduced to PT when a friend lent me the CD single Waiting. It's still a favourite of mine, as is the rest of the Signify album, although I enjoy pretty much everything by PT. I agree with you about their individual output post-It, although I do like the majority of SWs albums. I also like John Wesley's work, in particular the Disconnect album, even though it's more rock than prog (and has a guest appearance by Alex Lifeson).

Through PT/SW, I've found myself enjoying some No-Man stuff (I recommend their live album Love And Endings) and, through that, to Tim Bowness and his album Lost In The Ghost Lights (a concept album about an aging prog rock star). Strange how one thing leads to another...

 

Ah yes, my mistake.

 

which system do people prefer?

tippy tappy in our own box with all the opposition in our half of the pitch... or

all our players in their half of the pitch, putting pressure on their back 3 or 4 with a high press

I know which one I prefer

 

I would argue that tippy happy in our own box should result in a huge negative points to us. Each pass across our own box should be -1 and every time that we pass it across our own box only to then lump it aimlessly up the pitch in a manner that could have been done 1 minute and 10 passes earlier should be -10. Under struber mark 2 we'd finish games on -783830

 

I don't feel the need to be that critical to be honest. I've no problem with passing it around our own half, but doing it in our own box is asking for trouble, if you ask me. It's clearly a work in progress in our home games to try and invite the opposition up the pitch. I await with bated breath our next home game in 3 weeks

 

I've said before that I have every faith that schopp will get it right as he learns more about our players and indeed when he gets a full squad to play with but at the moment if I was giving out entertainment points then his tactic of passing it around the back and then lumping it (because the tippy happy doesn't work and we then panic under pressure) would surely have a big mini's points score. I'm sure it's a temporary thing which will change but right now it's a score that should really be given out rather than the team actually picking up entertainment points for doing it.

 

Well, our goal came from a move that began with us passing the ball around and within our own box. As did our equaliser at Cardiff.

 

Have to agree with that.. totally pointless (pardon the pun) and makes us look clueless.

 

I know, but I still think it's asking for trouble to be playing it around our own box!

 

Well, after six games we’ve scored two goals doing it and conceded none. But we’ve conceded two goals from quickly taken free kicks and two from set plays. I’d rather we tried fixing that. Although it’s not a worry as such. I think we are in transition, a development phase and weight my expectations accordingly.

 

I am pleased that my scoring system has generated debate. That is what it was meant to do. Here is my logic for the weightings and the statistics.

I could have used passes in the scoring system. That information is available, but I chose not to. We played Norwich in the final game of last season. They dominated the passing statistics and they also dominated the possession statistics, but most of their possession was in their own half, and very little was in our final third. Yes, they were a good side, but was I entertained by them. No, I wasn't. There has to be a compromise between the two extremes, between the long ball game and the possession game and there has to be goalmouth action if I am going to be entertained. Based on a scoring system of 1 point for each 1% of possession, a team would have to have 10% more possession or 10% more final third territorial advantage than their opponent to make good on 1 goal, which given the other statistics, is likely to be a breakaway goal. There are no statistics that I am aware of giving the amount of passes exchanged in your own box, so I am unlikely to be able to score that in an entertainment index, but as I said in my match report, the logic behind it is that you draw opposition pressing players forward in order to create space beyond them. The problem for Barnsley on Saturday was that we did not use that space effectively. Our tactics will change, and we will be better when our injured and visa restricted players become available again.

I thought long and hard about the weightings and the statistics that I use, but I accept that they may not be perfect. I also accept that these things are based upon what I personally find entertaining in the game that we all love. I hope that this debate will continue, because I would welcome everyone's thoughts on what they find entertaining about the game. However, please bear in mind that you should look at the game as a whole, and not just as a supporter of Barnsley FC . If you are not careful, your entertainment score will be derived just from winning, and the manner of how the team did so will not be important to you. The Entertainment Index is meant to measure how entertaining our style of play was, and not how happy you were because we won. In other words, you have to be aware of your emotional reaction to a game as well as your aesthetic reaction to it. I score heavily for what goes on in the final third of the pitch, and quite lightly for what goes on elsewhere on the pitch, because that is where I am entertained. That is why Barnsley scored less heavily than Birmingham on Saturday, and that is why our scores for the season to date place us 19th in the entertainment league. That is why the best, and most entertaining games happen when both teams commit to all out attack. The problem is of course that if your team plays that way, and it does not have the quality of player to do so, it loses consistently. Basically, that is why games are less entertaining than they could be. Teams need to find a way of winning games that they should not win. That is what tactics are for, and Minority Report is mainly about tactics.

When I first produced the Entertainment Index, I was surprised that it did not correspond with my own emotional index. As you all know, I did not enjoy the way that the team played under Ismael, but his team scored quite well in the Entertainment Index. I sought an explanation, and I was forced to conclude that my judgement was based upon my own emotional reaction. I did not enjoy watching Ismael's team because his style of play did not correspond to the way I wanted to see my team play, the way that it played under Danny Wilson, which represents the peak of my personal Enjoyment Index. Perhaps, after all, it is just that I have chosen the wrong name for the index that I have produced.

Thoughts Please

 

For me, an entertaining game is one where we've created lots of chances in and around the opponents box, scored goals and ultimately won the game. Therefore territory is an important statistic, as is shots on/off target. However, possession is not as important. As we proved last season we could have a low % possession, create loads of chances, score goals and win games

 

Can I be a real pain and say both? For me I like to see us mixing it up and if I watch a Prem match it's those long precision passes that I enjoy and we often miss in the championship.

 

You could never be a pain Helen

 

My thoughts are that you like certain managers over others which gives a more blinkered view.

Do you prefer points over performance or visa versa?

 

Ifsion is important possession is not important to you, you are effectively saying you enjoy watching the opposition passing the ball around. You have simply looked at the way that we played last season, a season that we over-achieved to finish 5th, and you have concluded that it was the way to play. What if our opponents had not complied with the ideal conditions for the press to be effective. What if they had cleared the ball before the press could force an error. What if we had won fewer games and finished lower in the table. Would possession still be irrelevant. In most systems, ball posses.

The reason that I deduct points for yellow cards (and fouls for that matter) is that the foul interrupts play. It causes an illegal stoppage. It stopped a threatening opposition move because it was considered a threat on goal. The Entertainment Index does not look at the game from the point of view of a committed supporter. It looks at the game from the point of view of someone who does not care who wins, and who simply wants to see good and entertaining football. Fouls that bring a move to an end reduced the chance of goalmouth action. They therefore reduce the potential for entertainment.

In the Barnsley v Birmingham game, possession made just a 2 point difference to the scores. It is fairly usual for a game to finish 60% v 40%. That difference would be the equivalent of 1 goal, but in the case of such a large difference in possession statistics, the game has probably been decided by goals scored in favour of the team with most possession in any event. Last season we had that statistic or more in the following games

Barnsley 60% v QPR 40% 3-0
Barnsley 34% v Watford 66% 1-0 *
Derby C 29% v Barnsley 71% 0-2
Barnsley 32% v Brentford 68% 0-1
Blackburn R 37% v Barnsley 63% 2-1 *
Brentford 63% v Barnsley 37% 0-2 *
Coventry C 61% v Barnsley 38% 2-0
Barnsley 33% v Norwich C 67% 2-2 *

So,the possession statistic would have made a significant difference in just 4 games last season. Barnsley would have benefited in 1 game, our opponent in 2 games and in the other game (Brentford) the possession statistic is still not enough to wipe out the goals scored deficit. To be honest, I think that you are making more of an individual statistic in isolation than is confirmed by the evidence. The fact is that possession is simply a small part of the overall match total.

 

That's not true though. A free kick just outside the box can be the most exciting parts of a match as can a penalty. The most exciting part of the Liverpool Chelsea game at the weekend was the red card and penalty yet for your scoring system that would have constituted the most boring part of the game right?

 

I agree.

 

No I'm not at all. I thought we were talking about entertainment. You are confusing that with league position. The final league position has nothing to do with whether a game was entertaining or not. I'm saying that possession isn't the be all and end all statistic. I'm saying it's what you do when you have the ball, not how long you have the ball. Passing aimless balls around the back 4, with 70% possession is not entertaining to me.

Yes, irrelevant to the entertainment of the game and the possession statistic is irrelevant to final league position