Monk Bretton incident

It's not rocket science that crime goes up when standards of living fall and property is basically unaffordable for a much larger section of society.

 

I too grew up in Wombwell. I was a bit of a quiet background person but you knew who the ‘hardnuts’ were, the ones who fought with their fists.
Stabbings were just something you read about in the paper that seemed to always happen in that there London.
Then Birmingham,
Then Nottingham, then on our doorstep in Sheffield.
Now it’s just up Burton Road.
It’s sickening that folk strut around believing they are invincible because if anyone crosses them, they can deal with it by sticking a blade in them.
It has to be down to police numbers. Stop and Search should be a part of every day life, for everyone until this problem is eradicated.
The race card gets played for it all the time yet I see elderly ladies, entering Oakwell, having their bags searched without fuss so why not everyone whilst out on the streets.

 

No it's not but there's a massive difference between shoplifting for example and knifing someone

 

I also think the online culture of keyboard warriors and generally where you can say and do what you want without any repercussions spill into real life. I can almost guarantee the perpetrator of this crime will claim it wasn’t their fault, that they had their own issues, they didn’t mean to, etc. They will also be surprised if/when they receive time in prison for the idiotic behaviour. They act without ever considering repercussions, as they are used to doing that online, in games and the movies they watch, and the music they listen to.

 

Films, games and music have nowt to do with it.

 

Not sure how long that will be at side of my name and I imagine I'm on thin ice I did get a 30 day ban . I didn't abuse anyone wasn't racist or offensive but it is what it is. Probably did me good abit of time off.

 

I don’t think that’s true. Crime rates were significantly lower during the 19th and early 20th century, despite living standards being much harsher than they are now. Plus, there are many countries with worse living standards than ours but have less crime. Since the 50s, crime has risen dramatically, coinciding with a rise in consumerism and disassociation with Christian values. Correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation, but it’s worth considering.

 

Are you absolutely sure about that?

 

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion given crime reporting statistics will not be in existence for the periods you're mentioning. What source is that from?

 

Yes. Violent crime significantly lower, too.

Well, they are actually.

If poverty causes crime, then what about the millions of poor that don’t commit crimes? Seems a bit insulting to me to suggest that poor people will just inevitably turn to crime because they’re poor.

 

It's not about objective living standards, but relative living standards. If (as in the periods you refer to) it's objectively **** but slightly less **** than your parents and you can afford a house then people are more likely to hold up their end of the social contract than if everything is going backwards where stuff keeps getting more expensive and homeownership is illusory for a lot of people. If society isn't holding up it's end of the bargain (that if you get a job you can afford a home and a family) then individuals are less likely to hold up their end of playing by the rules.

 

Literally nobody is saying that.

 

Were crimes recorded exactly the same in the 19th and early 20th century as they are today? I doubt it and without it being a fair comparison you can't really compare.

 

My point exactly (ex- police strategic intelligence analyst)

 

I see what you’re saying. But I’m not sure that working class Victorians living in extreme poverty had an expectation that the state or society would protect their interests. I don’t think there was a a widespread notion that state/society owed people a high standard of living or would ever provide one. Crime increased after 1950 alongside the rise of the welfare state and an increase in living standards, which seems, to me at least, to suggest that crime isn’t tied purely to whether people feel let down economically.

I think in the past, values like family, religion and community were more prominent and had a stabilising effect to some degree. When those values began to erode, I think people felt less bound by societal norms allowing for crime.

Not arguing, by the way. Just my opinion and reading of history.

 

Well, historians are split on this. Many think statistics are broadly comparable. But obviously you know everything already, so forget it

 

When someone asks for a source to back up your point, it's usually best to link one - rather than make a sarky comment when questioned. I'd be interested in looking at the comparison.

 

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/alan-sutton-death-man-21-29871400

 

Because the country is full of offended, hard done by little cry babies.

 

Very classy of you. Was only letting you know I had some experience of crime pattern analysis as I thought it might be relevant. Not, "I know everything".