No deal won’t be allowed to happen

Sorry SB but that quote sounds like someone who is desperately fudging and trying to keep both the remainers and leavers in the Labour vote onside.

 

But we're not leaving with a deal.
The current trajectory is a no deal Brexit, a deal would need a change of government and that'snot about to happen.

 

Anyone would think his brexit positioning was incompetent and deliberate and he was a lifelong critic of the EU and wanted out... oh... hang on

 

I agree, it needs toning down and depoliticising

But it’s too much to expect, we’re in a world post hyperbole where extreme is the first retort rather than rational debate over issues and problems.

 

Agreed in large parts. The thing that really angers me is there are many who have been told or believe it will solve the problems they perceive to exist. It won’t. Our own government is the problem! That’s not to say the EU is brilliant, it isn’t but shouting from outside isn’t going to make anything better

The priorities and choices our government make, especially a hard right conservative one won’t benefit many of those in our area who were convinced to vote for it. But there is no hope of changing anyone’s mind.

This whole charade is going to cost the average man and woman and our children money, opportunities and potential life experiences , it’s that simple, for that reason I can’t for the life of me understand why we should do it.

 

Don't be sorry Churt!!...I do though think that is JC's position...he is a well documented lifetime Eurosceptic.

 

I would not be so sure.

In my limited straw pole, no-one has changed their minds yet. If the vote was re-run, it would just harden the resolve of voters to vote the same way. The Brexiteers are convinced that all the evidence of recession resulting from a NO Deal Brexit is fabricated, that it is all a ruse invented by the Remoaners to change the valid result of a democratic vote. One part of me has given up the fight, accepted defeat and is waiting for s**t to hit the fan. My only hope is Boris Johnson.

My hope is that it is a just a game of chicken, that no half intelligent politician would not have already worked out the inevitable effect of a No Deal Brexit on the economy of this country and the standard of living of its voters. The fact that it is also a bad result for the EU does not change the end result for us. Assuming he has done that, there is no way that he does not find the prospect of a No Deal Brexit as terrifying as the rest of us. He must also have worked out that the political party that leads us into that mess will face 30 years in the wilderness. Jeremy Corbyn certainly has and the rhetoric that we have heard from him of late is aimed at placing his party in the position of being able stay say convincingly after the event, "Look what I said at the time. It is nothing to do with us, and the rest of them didn't lift a finger to help either."

Whatever you think about Corbyn, and his potential competence as a future PM, and I do not think much myself, he has certainly got this right. It is a case when sitting on the fence, doing nothing, and watching whilst others dig their own grave. The strategy has been exactly the right thing to do. The thing is, Boris is far cleverer than me. I think that he knows all that. I think he knows that No Deal Brexit is a death warrant. I think that he is playing chicken on his own, because the EU knows that although No Deal Brexit will hurt them too, their position is nowhere near as weak as his position is. I do not see how he can possibly win. When the only possible result of the game is to lose, the only possible choice is to stop playing.

I hope that I am not wrong. I hope that he does not go through with it because a No Deal Brexit will break up the UK and condemn England to a future of austerity, austerity and more austerity.

 

I’m sorry no matter how analytical you like to think you are using the word remoaners makes your argument silly, childish and invalid. And you aren’t a “brexiteer” life some knight of the realm. You put a cross on a bit of paper!

 

I think that Boris is well up for no deal. A new deal would be difficult, if not impossible to negotiate with the EU (for which, incidentally I don't blame them because why on earth would they prejudice the 27-state free trade alliance which improves matters, notwithstanding the short term issues with some profligate states). Furthermore, there would be no guarantee of getting any new deal through Parliament because for the real nutjob brexiteers like Baker or Francois, any deal will be too much to give away. Furthermore, a deal would almost certainly not kill off Farage's malignant grouping. I see no deal, quick election, Boris "I gave you your Brexit" triumphing, and five more years of Tory misrule thereafter. The outcome after that will not matter - Boris will have achieved his destiny by serving as PM for five years and any problems which do arise following Brexit will be blamed on the EU or remainers.

 

I'm pretty sure that RR was adopting the voice of the brexiteers for that purpose - not adopting the derogatory description himself. T'other thing is that Brexit usually auto-corrects to capital 'B'. When I remember, I always correct it back to small 'b' brexit!

 

Both Corbyn and Johnson know that if there's a No Deal and there's General Election that Swinson and Farage pose a massive threat so a No Deal is not in either of their best interests.
Johnson knows he's finished if there's a No Deal.
The way out for him is to cobble together a Deal that the EU are happy with (and one includes some of Corbyn's demands.))

That Deal can only get through Parliament with Labour party support. If Labour reject the Deal they will be seen as the party responsible for a No Deal.
And neither Corbyn nor Johnson want a GE without a Deal.
My guess is a Deal will be made - Corbyn will be given an assurance that a GE will soon follow -

 

I fear you're wrong, but I hope you're right.

 

O.K. Mr O.
£20 from me to a Charity of your choice if what I predict above doesn't happen!

 

Yes of course that’s it. Absolutely that.

 

Democracy deniers? Is that those of us who think that elections should be legal, not full of lies and certainly not have the government of the day prevent the police from carrying out criminal investigations into leave. And if 38% of the electorate being conned into something is a massive electoral mandate then we may as well give up. Let the brextremists and the disaster capitalists have their way? How many lives is this nonsense worth? I've asked a few people and they don't seem to have an answer. The current government are happy to kill 130000 thousand people through their pip cruelty. How many more?

 

One other reason to add ,I know people who voted for Brexit that have now changed their minds ,
The reason they changed their minds is that the people running Brexit were saying they’d be no repercussions on our economy etc etc .
Now these same people are admitting that it will have repercussions on our economy and could take years to turn around but it’ll be worth it .
Now taking into account that they were saying it wouldn’t but now admitting it could and it’s now being accepted even in the most hardened Brexiteer that it’s a very good possibility .
Now whether it will or it won’t is not my point , my point is they were wrong and secured votes on it not being wrong .
So to leave on that basis is not democracy it’s based on wrong assumptions, lies or misunderstandings or whatever you want to call it .
The point is we are more informed on both sides in the fact it could trigger recession and the US are after our NHS contracts etc all these have been confirmed along with the many lies and scaremongering in both sides.
So for anybody to to deny that another vote is undemocratic is wrong , it’s going back to the same people with more information and in anybody’s language that is democratic .
If the vote is still to leave after all this information then that is truly the will of the people .
Ps
In my opinion the lies were perpetrated without any thought on the British public to secure the vote because they thought it was a once in a lifetime vote and whatever lies they spun didn’t matter because if they were found out we’d still have to leave .
In my opinion the spirit of the election on that basis (besides the many other abnormalities) has been broken .

 

A poll I saw yesterday suggests that Remain now has 55% of the vote should another one happen. How many of the older generation that voted overwhelmingly to leave are no longer with us. They pined for the glory days of the sixties before the Common Market - it's certainly not how I remember that time.

 

No, please elaborate

 

most of those older generations voted remain in 1975 and after 40 years decided that the common market was not what they bought into when they put their X on the paper the first time round.

 

" I hope you suffer" wow, because my mindset, opinion, outlook differs from yours, something I ain't done on here is wish misery or suffering on anyone simply because they dont share my beliefs or opinions whether religious or political, and that comment sir is why many who voted remain are stereotyped