o/t Any ex-miners who could help me with a query about the differences between Yorks and Notts?

Thanks Hooky Fella. Does that mean that if the pit mined more coal, you got bigger bonuses, or just that there were more shifts to work? One thing I've found in researching is a general disbelief in the figures of those stated to be scabbing due to government propaganda which makes it hard to trust figures

 

Thanks to everyone who has taken the trouble to reply so far, I'm very grateful. I was only about 6 in the strike although I come from a mining family so this is priceless! Bryn

 

Well tbh I hadn’t heard the points you mention but not saying they havnt Been raised .
I was always on the understanding that miners were a breed apart and more or less same everywhere but there are points to contradict that .one being even in South Wales miners were different from one another as travel from mining villages were very rare and each community were different in thinking etc and I think that’s same in most working areas tbh until travel became easier and popular that is .
I think all communities were suspicious of other communities be it mining or otherwise . What brought the common denominator imo were trade unions .

 

That's a good insight. I remember my grandad telling me he went to visit a pit in South Wales and said the folk down there weren't very friendly. I think he said they changed to Welsh when they realised there were English blokes in the wmc.

I realise there are many risks of generalisations mentioned in this thread that I need to be wary of.

 

What I would also say spirit ditch that sticks in my mind was a memo the economist magazine published in march 1984 that had been first leaked from conservative party hq in 1978. It basically wargamed the strike but in 1983 against the miners. It laid down planning as to how to win, eg downgrading militant ports, importing electricity from france via pipeline, ramping up homologous police training and agitating/encouraging the establishment of a more moderate miners union, ie the udm in notts. Only playing devils advocate but possibly the pivot of your enquiry may be there, rather than a difference in working conditions.

 

Yes, thanks Darfield that's the Ridley Plan and my chapter does pivot around that. Certainly the siege mentality around the community given the plan uses full blown military terminology

 

Basically this enquiry comes about in exploring the sense that mining identity took on aspects of a warrior type of masculinity due to the Tory policy as revealed in the Ridley Plan. Linked to that is the inverse that scabs are a kind of weak and selfish negative 'other' of that. And I'm interested in whether that has any basis in the geology of the area, the land, the conditions of the mine itself, whether there is something special about Yorkshire...

 

Sounds like you're on it
Out of interest, what are you studying??

 

Haha it's actually English Literature. I'm looking at miners' stories and narratives and also people working in jobs that replaced the pits, interviewing people , thinking how they could be told in fiction and poetry. I've been lucky enough to interview people from the bbs as well

 

Bonuses were based on targets. Not necessarily more coal extracted pit by pit. But on the ability to achieve set targets given size of seam. ( selby area was renowned for large/tall seams ) But bear in mind smaller seams often brought more faults causing down time etc. Like I said previously there will more than likely be ex face workers on here that could explain it better than I could.

 

Brilliant thank you

 

Also take into account that in striking areas by enlarge most of us were in solidarity , community pulling together organising soup kitchens etc most i same boat which was great and helped the resolve .
In Notts it was different miners on strike were a minority working mostly against their own community in a hostile environment . Mortgages and rents were ecpected to be paid as the area weren’t officially on strike and attitude was everyone else is working.
It would have been easier for them to pack in and go back to work but they didn’t and some were real heroes.
There’s a few books written by striking notts miners and some will bring a lump to your throat

 

I didn't see that coming, would have said sociology or even anthropology. You could go deeper than the Ridley plan with an economists perspective. The seventies had proved you could price yourself out of a job and the right wing of the Tories that took over after heath bought into the sixties Chicago school notion that you could price yourself into a job by accepting lower wages. Subsequently even freidman admitted this wouldn't work as on a macroeconomic level, workers are also consumers and driving down wages drives down aggregate demand. The Tories persisted regardless as it suited a political imperative. It is hard to say if the average miner knew the scale of the fight they faced, my father in law (an num shop steward ) saw it as a class war. I came to agree with him but from an unusual perspective. I remember trying to explain to my parents in 1983 the coal industry would soon be dead and them being incredulous . I was never a miner so can't speak for them but think they all felt a cold chilly breeze in 1979.

 

Sometimes there are posts that you so wholeheartedly agree with and feel you cant’t shout out enough from from the highest point, but this surpasses that. The Striking Notts lads that I met were something else considering they were seen as ‘Outlaws’’ in their own communities and treated like vermin. Sorry for bringing the ‘Scab’ chant into the thread, but this is THE reason why I’m not comfortable with it. Having said that, I’ve read on here that the Notts lads welcome it.I don’t know.

 

The only real difference would be in the seam heights as far as I know - it was all mechanised.

 

My paternal family came up from Northants to mine about 200 years ago

 

That's the good thing about Literature in that you can look at economics, anthropology etc . You're right that everyone seems to be very conscious that the strike was a last stand in an ideological battle for what kind of country we would live in. The imposition of those neoliberal policies you mentioned influenced by Friedman was there in black and white in the leaked Ridley Plan. The unions and countless accounts from miners in interviews and who I've spoken to were aware that this was a fight for workers' and union rights across the board and defeat would change the face of the country. And so it proved. Looking back it is startling how aware everyone seemed to be of the terms of the dispute and what was at stake. What's your background in knowing this stuff Darfield?

 

That's incredible, the sacrifice these people made. That seems the ultimate act, to be ostracised by both the government and the local mining community, wow. How did they survive ?

I didn't make the Notts County game but did the scabs chant appear then?

 

Well I came from four generations of miners for a start. I studied economics at a level and then degree level aswell as doing some economic modelling (no jokes please) for Leicester city council. After that I took a different path but always kept an interest and still subscribe to the economist. I am contemplating doing a post graduate certificate at the LSE in globalisation at present. Btw freidman didn't influence the Ridley plan. By the time the Tories had got to power he was saying don't try this at home folks, although his uk acolyte Patrick minford (who I've met) reckoned he could tweak monetarism and make it work here. Also btw YouTube a seventies drama called "the price of coal" about a disaster in a pit in Barnsley and how the community deals with it. As I recall it was pretty accurate. All the best with your studies

 

Yes that’s right mate the price of coal was based on the Houghton main colliery disaster of 1975 and the Prince of Wales visiting the Prince of Wales colliery in Pontefract round about the same time .
It’s a Ken Loach film and it’s very true to life using local actors and residents.
Even the part where the Canteen lady was serving the rescue workers till her husbands body was found :