O/T... Vegetarianism in the workplace...

Morrissey tried it in the 80's. Look what an idiot he is.

I do think it's commendable for people to cut back on meat, give it up, or go vegan if they want to. I fall into the former category. My ex girlfriend of 10 years was a vegetarian, so I got used to eating less meat when I was with her & realised I actually largely felt better for it, but occasionally I still enjoy a fry up or chicken tikka or something when I go out. People preaching at others will achieve little, but I think the vegetarian / vegan approach is much more appealing to young people & social norms will change over time.

 

Couldn't agree more. Particularly when all evidence points to the fact that a plant based diet is significantly worse for you than a balanced diet.

Look at all the stories of babies that have died, due to their parents feeding them on a vegan diet. People need the protein and nutrients from meat and animal products.

 

I don't dispute this of course. But animals have to die for you to be healthy, they don't for me to be healthy. If you can live with that I have to hold my hands up and say fair enough, nothing I can say. I can't respect your decision nor your right to make it because I fundamentally believe that humans living in modern developed societies such as ours should not have the right to kill animals. However, I never ever comment on what people eat unless they do so about what or how I eat. Which people do, all the bloody time!

 

Completely wrong.

 

Actually it was the mince (albeit many years ago so they may have improved it).
We tried it once instead of mince made a ragu sauce for spaghetti and it couldn't even maken a decent fist of that! (Proper Ragu uses a mix 50% Pork shoulder mince & 50% beef mince). You would think with garlic, onion, nutmeg, fresh tomatoes and passata plus parmesan and black pepper it would be OK but we ended up with something no self respecting Italian would touch (It ended up in the bin and we went to the chippy it was that bad). Don't want to come across as a food snob but I like to know what I am putting into my body and natural products rather than processed foods. Butter and lard went through a bad publicity stage only for scientists to discover that vegetable oil is actually less healthy particularly when used for frying. the less processing the better. Ironically many meat substitutes require complex factory processing and ingredients obtained from many different sources often worldwide... hardly 'green!' for those that quote that as their reason for going Vegetarian or Vegan. The slow food /zero Kilometre movements are growing here and I doubt given the tradition of Salumi and Pork products here in Italy things will change in the foreseeable future. Germany is even more meat orientated than Italy so, again, Veganism will be a long time coming, if ever.

 

I eat meat and I think you're right.

 

Actuially it isn't!! There is increasing credible scientific evidence that , particularly in infancy and childjood Veganism is detrimental to health development. Look at my earlier posts. .

 

"billions of animals" that would never have been born, and nor do they die " needlessly" if they are part fo the food chain. The issue is that the quality of life and how they are killed that is the key.
Food generally, and particularly meat, is too cheap. which usually comes at the cost of the animals themselves. Free range open air chickens both for meat and egg production are far more costly to rear,in part because of extra space needed and the fact that the free range chickens take longer to mature. When I was young , chicken was considered a luxury itme because battery farming was yet to be conceived. Rightly many of the abbhorrent practices are now banned. We buy local eggs from farms and they taste far better and I am comfortable that the chickens are well treated . They are around twice the price of standard eggs available in supermarkets but IMO worth it from both our point of view and the chicken. less frequent but better quality when it comes to our meat diet these days The same can be said of the Pork which we buy. All locally sourced and reared by local farmers on a small scale and when the time comes are not transported huge distances to God knows where to be slaughtered whilst stressed and terrified.
I know this will not satisfy dyed in the wool (sorry couldn't avoid that) vegans but all I am saying is quality of life and the manner of death is important.
One irony that should not escape us is that some are militant about not rearing and killing animals but give little thought to humans who are not allowed the choice to die even when they are suffering with unbearable pain through disease. We have a strange concept of what is ethical and what isn't .

 

I’d imagine cutting down the travel associated with 30 people working mostly on the road would have a more significant positive impact on the environment than 30 people eating meat would.

Plenty of technology these days to help with remote working, being physically there isn’t always needed these days (granted it is unavoidable sometimes).

 

What have you got against plants, they have feelings too?

 

Really now.... Have a nice day is the easiest answer to the above ... But seriously statements like this are exactly what I talked about in my journey insight...10 years down the line... some peoples attitudes and beliefs are so wide of the mark... But who am I to attempt to point them to the truth ( this is were the accusations start) ... Other than to say
please do the research before making wild statements like the above... It doesn't do anybody any favors...
Not falling out or wanting to argue but
Repeating the above is yesterday's news tomorrow's chip papers
And I refuse to accept I'm getting on my high horse here but you are wrong on every single point .. ... All medically proven might I add..
I'm going to retreat from this debate which might I add was ticking over nicely.. nobody attacking each other and each side keeping to the argument accepting each others points until this.. it just kills it and makes you go what's the point... In my opinion It insults everybodies intelligence both sides of the debate and it must be right it was headline news in the sun... Or like
But its wrong

 

How do you get on with beer if you're vegan, mate? I know you run a pub, can you not drink most of it then?

 

I went to visit Pot House Hamlet a while ago. There's a small zoo with farm animals up at the top. Went up with my partner and the sheep came over, very friendly and with blue eyes (never seen blue eyed sheep before) and there were chickens about and being fed and there were kids. Then I thought - hang on, we all love these animals and then we go and slaughter them. I went out that evening and ate lamb chops - but felt very guilty. A friend of mine started to keep hens for their eggs and now won't eat chicken. He tells me they all have personalities.... I understand the ethical objections of vegans about killing and eating animals - and the mass meat market is guilty of a lot of cruelty. However, I also feel that meat is a natural food for humans and there are carnivores in the wild. With all that in mind, if you are still reading and haven't fallen asleep, I continue to eat meat, but I only buy free range organic meat from humane sources and try to get it from local butchers who can tell me where it came from. I have to rely on people's words for that. I don't eat as much meat as I used to, and no crap like chicken bites, or frozen burgers etc etc. Vegans are entitled to their views and I object to having them shoved in my face - but I respect their choices.

 

Anybody watch The Game Changers on Netflix?, it’s about James Wilks whose an ex martial arts and cage fighter, i recommend anybody to watch it it, it didn’t make me want to become vegan but it certainly made me stop and think about what I eat, i found it fascinating.

 

You are in a similar camp to me. I probably only eat meat 2-3 meals a week & only eat free frange / organic & mostly chicken, which is highly sustainable. I eat loads of eggs too.

 

Lol its a nightmare or was...
I've now retired only recently from the pub trade... In answer there's a Webb site that you can visit which tells you which beers wines are vegan friendly.. If I still have them il search them out.. Are the returned emails that I received from numerous independent local and nationwide brewers telling me which bottle beers are vegan friendly.. When I was looking for some craft beer.. However you have to be alert because ingredients and brewing processes can change...
Just like food stuff...
As daft as it may seem I always check tins bottles food wise... Some times it will say suitable for vegetarians but when checking they are in fact it's vegan friendly.. It boils down to manufacturers using the same production line that handles possibly eggs or dairy, honey in other products and they are covering them self's from cross contamination rules and regulations
Biggest problem is cross contamination occurring in the kitchen whereby the cook/chef doesn't use separate utensils grills etc... It can be a major problem/concern for outlets a supplying vegan food...
You can even look on most supermarkets Webb sites these day and it will tell you what vegan products they stock.. But it's not fool proof... Most supermarkets have recalled vegan products at some point due to cross contamination by the manufacturer ..
You can only do your best.. No doubt a lot of folk don't know they use animal bones to clean sugar nor do they know fish innards are used to clear beer or dairy milk to bulk out medicines ... There's numerous products out there whos ingredients are not clearly marked up...
One of the worst don't no if its still the same but Asdas soya milk was sweetened by lanolin and not vegan ... Vitimin d in numerous products render them non vegan the reason being lanolin along with vitamin D is derived from sheep's wool... Belive it or not...

 

Credit to you, it is a lot of effort to go to. I guess eventually you get to know what you can eat and drink when you do your regular shop.

 

Ooh, tha's nailed it. Chapeau.

 

Essentially, I am here and I have to eat something.

Plants it is. If they suffer, it is less obvious.

I am here, and I must eat, but the less damage I do, the better.

Nobody's perfect.

 

Although I still eat meat I do agree with you in principle. I eat less meat now than I ever have and I am always willing to try new meals that reduce my meat intake even further.

I am an animal lover and although it might sound a bit hypocritical I will only buy meat from countries who have a decent standard of animal welfare.

I know it is not a perfect position to take but I like to think that animal welfare in our country means that they are treated humanely while alive and slaughtered as humanely as possible too. Obviously this cannot be guaranteed and there are always going to be tw*ts who don't care and this does concern me, a lot.

Do I feel guilty? Yes I do.